Some Facts on the Police, Violence, Use of Force and Race (From Reddit)

[rjs4470]

Does anyone find the number of people stopped by police disturbing?? That number is greater than the population of most countries. Without doing the math, considering the very young and elderly likely don't have much police interaction, we might be looking at nearly 1 out of every 5 or 6 people that have broken (or been suspected of breaking) the law at some point in time over that period.

[Plato]

I wonder if the 31 million figure reflects unique individuals or if it includes people stopped on more than one occasion.

From a school perspective, our discipline referrals often have the same names on them time and time again.

[capt278]

I'm not sure what to say. I do feel that there is a disconnect in the discussions of these recent weeks. The issue (IMO) isn't one that can be defined with a statistic. No one (with a reasonable, rational perspective) is AGAINST police or any law enforcement agency

The issue isn't racial, although that is being forced and detracting from the real issue.

 

The issue, I believe, is accountability. I don't necessarily think it's a bigger issue than in the past, but that social meDia in particular, has made these incidents more visible to a larger audience. When there are incidents on a daily basis that seem to infringe on the rights of average citizens, yet nothing is done, it makes the averge citizen at large uncomfortable. And we've had several of those discussions recently...the case where the dog was killed, the Ferguson and NY cases, police using force to enter homes that were unwarranted. It's not that anyone is against the police. It's that citizens want them to be accountable in the same way those who don't wear a badge are accountable.

 

Just as those in law enforcement expect support from the citizens they protect, the citizens expect support from the justice system when a mistake is made.

 

While I agree with most of your post, I would like to point out what I bolded. When there are those marching and chanting for dead police officers, they are against the police.

[rockmom]

Did you miss the part where I explained I was talking about reasonable and rational people? When you generalize an entire grout for the actions/words of the extreme, you do nothing to forge a solution.

[JokersWild24]

Not to be all Debbie Downer, but the FBI and Uniform Crime Report's statistics that are relied on here are often criticized for being incomplete. Since I've been accused of being super liberal in other threads, here's a Fox News Article that reports on such:

 

Hundreds of homicides committed by police reportedly not included in national crime statistics | Fox News

 

 

Here's a pertinent part of the article:

 

"Local police departments are not required to participate in the FBI’s uniform crime reporting program.

 

Some agencies tend to not report the killings, Bureau of Justice statistician Alexia Cooper told the journal. Nearly 800 agencies reported about 2,400 killings by police, while more than 18,000 other departments did not report any."

 

 

I think the biggest question is how incomplete these statistics are. I do agree with some of the findings listed above, I just don't know if the numbers paint the entire picture because of the way things are reported given the sample size and the fact that you'd think that the ones who are doing things right are going to be more apt to report.

[mcpapa]

I wonder if the 31 million figure reflects unique individuals or if it includes people stopped on more than one occasion.

From a school perspective, our discipline referrals often have the same names on them time and time again.

 

Probably closer to 30 million unique individuals, once you account for PP92's one million stops.

[halfback20]

Not to be all Debbie Downer, but the FBI and Uniform Crime Report's statistics that are relied on here are often criticized for being incomplete. Since I've been accused of being super liberal in other threads, here's a Fox News Article that reports on such:

 

Hundreds of homicides committed by police reportedly not included in national crime statistics | Fox News

 

Here's a pertinent part of the article:

 

"Local police departments are not required to participate in the FBI’s uniform crime reporting program.

 

Some agencies tend to not report the killings, Bureau of Justice statistician Alexia Cooper told the journal. Nearly 800 agencies reported about 2,400 killings by police, while more than 18,000 other departments did not report any."

 

I think the biggest question is how incomplete these statistics are. I do agree with some of the findings listed above, I just don't know if the numbers paint the entire picture because of the way things are reported given the sample size and the fact that you'd think that the ones who are doing things right are going to be more apt to report.

 

Two different references are used for the stats regarding those killed by police. Either way, most of those are justified shootings. The number I'd like to see is the total unjustified shootings.

[Plato]

Two different references are used for the stats regarding those killed by police. Either way, most of those are justified shootings. The number I'd like to see is the total unjustified shootings.

 

That number would depend greatly on who you ask.

[halfback20]

 

That number would depend greatly on who you ask.

 

I don't have to ask anyone to know that most are justified. I also don't have to ask anyone to know that there will be controversy surrounding any shooting these days, even if the perp pulls a gun out and shoots at police.

[halfback20]

http://sagebrushscot.blogspot.com/2014/12/no-justice-no-police.html?m=1

 

Interesting blog with some of the same stats from the reddit post.

[Run To State]

Sagebrush Scot: No justice, no police.

 

Interesting blog with some of the same stats from the reddit post.

Interesting chart.

 

[Jumper_Dad]

I wonder if the 31 million figure reflects unique individuals or if it includes people stopped on more than one occasion.

From a school perspective, our discipline referrals often have the same names on them time and time again.

This!

It is the total number of interactions...I know from the time I've spent in court that most appearing in court are "Frequent Flyers" a small percentage of people are doing a lot of the crap that is being done and therefore come into contact with police much more often than most citizens do.

[Jumper_Dad]

Does anyone find the number of people stopped by police disturbing?? That number is greater than the population of most countries. Without doing the math, considering the very young and elderly likely don't have much police interaction, we might be looking at nearly 1 out of every 5 or 6 people that have broken (or been suspected of breaking) the law at some point in time over that period.

 

That only works out to around 40 stops per yer per sworn police officer in the US. Granted that supervisors, detectives and some others aren't out making stops and some are assigned other duties that still leaves only around 80 stops per year per police officer out on the streets...just over one per week.

 

31,000,000 stops is less than 10% of the population getting pulled over or stopped on the street. Out of 10 friends how many do you think get pulled over for speeding or other traffic infraction per year. 31,000,000 is a pretty low number IMO.

[Jumper_Dad]

Not to be all Debbie Downer, but the FBI and Uniform Crime Report's statistics that are relied on here are often criticized for being incomplete. Since I've been accused of being super liberal in other threads, here's a Fox News Article that reports on such:

 

Hundreds of homicides committed by police reportedly not included in national crime statistics | Fox News

 

 

Here's a pertinent part of the article:

 

"Local police departments are not required to participate in the FBI’s uniform crime reporting program.

 

Some agencies tend to not report the killings, Bureau of Justice statistician Alexia Cooper told the journal. Nearly 800 agencies reported about 2,400 killings by police, while more than 18,000 other departments did not report any."

 

 

I think the biggest question is how incomplete these statistics are. I do agree with some of the findings listed above, I just don't know if the numbers paint the entire picture because of the way things are reported given the sample size and the fact that you'd think that the ones who are doing things right are going to be more apt to report.

 

There is a question and it should be reported. But something that it doesn't say is that if the police in say Burnside Ky shot someone the KSP will investigate it and report it. Even though Burnside with a force of less than 10 officers probably doesn't report national stats it would be reported with the KSP stats. There are 6 departments plus the Kentucky State Police in this county, I'd bet that at least the 4 smallest departments don't report.

 

There are hundreds of departments of less than 10 officers that are probably the ones not reporting to the FBI and in 99% of the time they aren't having police involved shootings either.

 

So while the numbers aren't complete they may not be as far off as some may be believed.

[Bluegrasscard]

Breaking down of crime statistics by race is easy - to easy. The story told by the statistics are mostly used by the haters and the baiters to rile up the masses.

 

On a pure racial view the story is simple - blacks are the victims of more crimes and commit more crimes on a percentage basis. That includes killing and getting killed by police officers.

 

Would the bars look much different if instead of black and white some of these combinations were used:

 

-Income below poverty line / Income above poverty line.

 

- Unmarried / married

 

- No father present when growing up / father present when growing up.

 

- Gang member / non-gang member

 

- Drug users / non-drug users

 

 

Finding correlation does not mean one has has found causation.

 

No one, but no one wants to deal with the fact that society, politicians, corporations, cities, us, etc. have basically abandoned males who have no fathers, who are poor, who join up with gangs, who seek out drugs. And oh by the way - a large percentage of those males happen to be black.

 

Do people commit more crime and assault and murder more because they are black? No.

 

Do people commit more crime and assault and murder because they are poor, isolated, ignored, frustrated? Yes.

 

 

We need to deal with the causation not the simple and irrelevant correlation. Stating that is easy. Turning it into a personable actionable task as an individual? I am as guilty as all the above.