God's Plan

[ladiesbballcoach]

Were "homosexual" and "heterosexual" even words that were used in those days?

 

Probably not since it was in either Greek, Aramic or some other language rather than English. :-)

[ladiesbballcoach]

Therein lies the other problem I have with the Bible as it relates to how some interpret it, and why it's a weak piece of ammunition for use in debate. Some folks are raised, like me, to take some of it literal and other parts as symbolic (Revelations, for instance). On the other hand, you have hardcore evangelicals and, it seems, most Baptist sects, who say every word is to be taken literally. Who's right? Who determines who's right?

 

It's like playing the same game under thousands of different rulebooks, to the point that the game barely resembles itself from one Christian sect to another.

 

Do you use the same mindset in learning about history of the world? That you really can't believe the history that is recorded because it is from the view of the winners.

 

There are more surviving copies of the original manuscripts of the books of the Bible than any other historical document and it is not even close. Yet, we teach those historical events as FACTS and yet question the authenticity of the Bible.

[ladiesbballcoach]

I hear that whole "we are under a new Law" thing all the time. If that's the case, why do people use the Bible as a defense for being anti-homosexual? I don't recall the NT addressing anti-homosexuality anywhere.

 

For that matter, why even read any of the OT passages in church, if it doesn't matter anymore?

 

Biblical primer for you.

 

1 Corinthians 6:9-11

 

New International Version (NIV)

 

9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Footnotes:

 

1. 1 Corinthians 6:9 The words men who have sex with men translate two Greek words that refer to the passive and active participants in homosexual acts.

[ladiesbballcoach]

It's either the birth lottery, or God is mean-spirited. When you consider how the odds of you being murdered or ending up in jail increases exponentially if you are born into poverty, it's one or the other. It's easy to make good choices if you're born into a nurturing, loving situation where you don't have to worry about where your next meal comes from.

 

I mean, really, how fair would it be for God to condemn someone to Hell for breaking the 8th Commandment when He's the one who put that person in the no-win situation to begin with?

 

I disagree. I think it is easier to sin when you have everything and see not having to rely on God than it is when you have nothing.

[ladiesbballcoach]

Romans 2 is generally thought of addressing the question about those born into areas where they have not heard the story of Jesus' love for them. The bolded is my highlighting.

 

Romans 2

 

New International Version (NIV)

 

Romans 2

God’s Righteous Judgment

1 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2 Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3 So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment? 4 Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?

 

5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”[a] 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism.

 

12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

[Alabama Larry]

Ezekiel 3:18 says we must watch over others and warn them of their sin, if we do so we will be blessed, wether they still sin or not.

[Jim Schue]

I disagree. I think it is easier to sin when you have everything and see not having to rely on God than it is when you have nothing.

 

So, you're telling me the well-off stealing for fun happens more often than poor folks stealing to survive? In that light, then, why is it the prisons are filled with the black, brown or poor white trash rather than the well-off?

[Jim Schue]

Biblical primer for you.

 

1 Corinthians 6:9-11

 

New International Version (NIV)

 

9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Footnotes:

 

1. 1 Corinthians 6:9 The words men who have sex with men translate two Greek words that refer to the passive and active participants in homosexual acts.

 

From the sounds of earlier posts in this and other threads, the translation isn't quite exact and leaves room for interpretation. Is that why folks seize on the Leviticus verses as justification for their condemnations far more so than these in Corinthians?

[Jim Schue]

Do you use the same mindset in learning about history of the world? That you really can't believe the history that is recorded because it is from the view of the winners.

 

No. It's why I tend to seek out neutral observations, and gather research from a variety of sources rather than one single source.

 

There are more surviving copies of the original manuscripts of the books of the Bible than any other historical document and it is not even close. Yet, we teach those historical events as FACTS and yet question the authenticity of the Bible.

 

In most of your aforementioned examples of "history being written by the winners," there's generally two sides, then the truth somewhere in between. With the Bible, on the other hand, there are a dozen or more different versions of the printed Bible, with dozens upon dozens of different interpretations of each of the different versions to suit the litany of different Christian sects. You're acting as though there's just one Bible and one working interpretation, and that's that. With more stripes of Christianity than a baker's dozen rainbows, it's pretty clear there's no single accepted version of the Good Book.

 

It may be God's word, but it was man who wrote it down, then picked and chose what to include and not to include in the canon, and man who chose which verses to take more seriously than others.

[Alabama Larry]

See ex Kentucky Law maker, who is gonna spend the rest of his life in prison.

[Birdsfan]

So, you're telling me the well-off stealing for fun happens more often than poor folks stealing to survive? In that light, then, why is it the prisons are filled with the black, brown or poor white trash rather than the well-off?

Rich people can afford better lawyers.

[ladiesbballcoach]

No. It's why I tend to seek out neutral observations, and gather research from a variety of sources rather than one single source.

 

 

 

In most of your aforementioned examples of "history being written by the winners," there's generally two sides, then the truth somewhere in between. With the Bible, on the other hand, there are a dozen or more different versions of the printed Bible, with dozens upon dozens of different interpretations of each of the different versions to suit the litany of different Christian sects. You're acting as though there's just one Bible and one working interpretation, and that's that. With more stripes of Christianity than a baker's dozen rainbows, it's pretty clear there's no single accepted version of the Good Book.

 

It may be God's word, but it was man who wrote it down, then picked and chose what to include and not to include in the canon, and man who chose which verses to take more seriously than others.

 

A good number of today's Bibles go to the original manuscripts to put together a version in whatever language that they are shooing for. So, today's Bibles are translated DIRECTLY from the original manuscripts by a TEAM of people.

[ladiesbballcoach]

No. It's why I tend to seek out neutral observations, and gather research from a variety of sources rather than one single source.

 

 

 

In most of your aforementioned examples of "history being written by the winners," there's generally two sides, then the truth somewhere in between. With the Bible, on the other hand, there are a dozen or more different versions of the printed Bible, with dozens upon dozens of different interpretations of each of the different versions to suit the litany of different Christian sects. You're acting as though there's just one Bible and one working interpretation, and that's that. With more stripes of Christianity than a baker's dozen rainbows, it's pretty clear there's no single accepted version of the Good Book.

 

It may be God's word, but it was man who wrote it down, then picked and chose what to include and not to include in the canon, and man who chose which verses to take more seriously than others.

 

Man in one sense did not choose which books to include in the NT. They set a rigid set of guidelines that would guarantee authenticity and truthfulness and THEN looked at each nominated letter/book/manuscript to see if it fit in those guidelines.

 

One was written at a time when there were people who had lived through the events and could refute them.

[ladiesbballcoach]

So, you're telling me the well-off stealing for fun happens more often than poor folks stealing to survive? In that light, then, why is it the prisons are filled with the black, brown or poor white trash rather than the well-off?

 

I said sin which there are multitudes of sin, you narrowed it to stealing.

 

I am thinking there is a lot of stealing that goes on that is never caught. Again, I am discussing sin and you are talking about getting caught by the law and convicted.

[5wide]

I said sin which there are multitudes of sin, you narrowed it to stealing.

 

I am thinking there is a lot of stealing that goes on that is never caught. Again, I am discussing sin and you are talking about getting caught by the law and convicted.

 

I would also point out the difference in your lines of thought. Jim Schue is specifically mentioning people born into bad situations and poverty. You're talking about sin. Sin would include stealing, but it goes much further than that. A rich person can sin in a myriad of ways that aren't remotely close to the stealing. So, when you say its just as difficult for someone who is well off to abstain from sinning, it mean that those people struggle with the urge to steal. They might struggle with something completely different.