God's Plan

[Habib]

There was a thread a while back where I raised similar questions as I am now, but I couldn't find it (it was fun looking though).

 

I often hear people say that something (usually tragic or unfortunate) is "part of God's plan," that "God has a plan for everyone," and even things like "God was watching out for me today." The implication is that God will take care of us, that we shouldn't worry about things as they were meant to happen. If this is true, how do we have free will?

 

I also often hear people discussing the power of prayer. Does God actually intervene in our lives at our request?

[Randy Parker]

There was a thread a while back where I raised similar questions as I am now, but I couldn't find it (it was fun looking though).

 

I often hear people say that something (usually tragic or unfortunate) is "part of God's plan," that "God has a plan for everyone," and even things like "God was watching out for me today." The implication is that God will take care of us, that we shouldn't worry about things as they were meant to happen. If this is true, how do we have free will?

 

I also often hear people discussing the power of prayer. Does God actually intervene in our lives at our request?

 

Not sure I completely agree with what you've heard people say. The "part of God's plan" thing during tragedy is an easy thing to say--and usually is well-meaning. I guess there are times when it might be God's plan. There are others when it's not His plan at all. The only thing we can be assured of in tragedy is that God will work out good in the lives of those who love Him (Romans 8:28). So I would say it is not always true that something or another was a "part of God's plan." Peter says (in 2 Peter) that God is not willing that any should perish, but for all to come to repentance. That is God's will; but it obviously will not come to fruition as He desires.

 

As for the prayer & intervention topic, I certainly believe that God answers all prayer in His own time & way. Sometimes, that answer is "yes" & sometimes "no" & sometimes "wait."

[Birdsfan]

God's foreknowledge, in my opinion, means just that--He knows. It doesn't always mean He causes what He knows is going to happen to happen (probably ought to read that a few times...sorry).

I think you're right. God didn't create us to be mindless robots. He created us to be his loving, thinking companions for eternity. He knows that some will choose to run from Him. But because He loved mankind so much, He gave us freedom to make our own choices -- even if that means choosing our own destruction.

[Birdsfan]

If you knew ahead of time your child would die a horrible and painful death at 2 years old would you still make the decision to have that child? I am not claiming to know it all either, and mostly thinking out loud to spark discussion and others thougths on it all.

But I don't think God is the cause of the child suffering. He hates it more than anyone, and he suffers right along side the child. The suffering comes, not from God, but from the world.

[Habib]

Not sure I completely agree with what you've heard people say. The "part of God's plan" thing during tragedy is an easy thing to say--and usually is well-meaning. I guess there are times when it might be God's plan. There are others when it's not His plan at all. The only thing we can be assured of in tragedy is that God will work out good in the lives of those who love Him (Romans 8:28). So I would say it is not always true that something or another was a "part of God's plan." Peter says (in 2 Peter) that God is not willing that any should perish, but for all to come to repentance. That is God's will; but it obviously will not come to fruition as He desires.

 

As for the prayer & intervention topic, I certainly believe that God answers all prayer in His own time & way. Sometimes, that answer is "yes" & sometimes "no" & sometimes "wait."

 

I understand what you're saying, and I think I agree. My question, though, is about whether God intervenes in our lives or not.

 

For instance, if I am in a car wreck but I am uninjured, does that mean God protected me? If it is part of a divine plan for me to survive, then it would suggest that free will does not exist. If God intervenes to protect me, then why not the many other people in wrecks?

 

I grapple with a lot of this. If there is a divine plan for each of our lives, then we cannot have free will, can we?

 

I think the question of whether God answers prayers is more vexing. I found my old post on this where I was a little more articulate: On one hand, it’s inconceivable that I could have done anything to be rewarded at a greater level than many other people in the world. I’ve done nothing to earn a divine boost to my happiness in life that millions of others in suffering haven’t done. This suggests that if God is playing an active role in doling out blessings to some and not others, or even condemning some to misery in life, that it is done rather arbitrarily. This leads me to believe that God doesn’t meddle with our lives, which we are left to our own devices to make it through. God may know us, but is not actively manipulating us or our circumstances. On the other hand, there is something comforting in believing a higher being is there to help us out. All my life I have asked God for things. Even though I’ve raised my doubts about his role in our lives, I continue to ask for things, to seek help. Is this something like a security blanket, or is it substantiatable? I don’t know. I can think of a few verses that are often used here, but I don’t believe they lead to a definitive conclusion.

[Randy Parker]

I understand what you're saying, and I think I agree. My question, though, is about whether God intervenes in our lives or not.

 

For instance, if I am in a car wreck but I am uninjured, does that mean God protected me? If it is part of a divine plan for me to survive, then it would suggest that free will does not exist. If God intervenes to protect me, then why not the many other people in wrecks?

 

I grapple with a lot of this. If there is a divine plan for each of our lives, then we cannot have free will, can we?

 

I think the question of whether God answers prayers is more vexing. I found my old post on this where I was a little more articulate: On one hand, it’s inconceivable that I could have done anything to be rewarded at a greater level than many other people in the world. I’ve done nothing to earn a divine boost to my happiness in life that millions of others in suffering haven’t done. This suggests that if God is playing an active role in doling out blessings to some and not others, or even condemning some to misery in life, that it is done rather arbitrarily. This leads me to believe that God doesn’t meddle with our lives, which we are left to our own devices to make it through. God may know us, but is not actively manipulating us or our circumstances. On the other hand, there is something comforting in believing a higher being is there to help us out. All my life I have asked God for things. Even though I’ve raised my doubts about his role in our lives, I continue to ask for things, to seek help. Is this something like a security blanket, or is it substantiatable? I don’t know. I can think of a few verses that are often used here, but I don’t believe they lead to a definitive conclusion.

 

I believe there are times when God intervenes & times when He does not. Identifying those instances (either when He does or does not) is the difficult part. I feel like I can look back at specific moments when, at the time, I didn't recognize God at work. But in retrospect, I feel like He was intervening & charting a course that I could not have found on my own.

 

Now, do I believe that God intervenes in every instance, or that He purposes every single jot-and-tiddle of life? No, I don't. I believe free will, for the most part, rules the day. But I firmly believe He does intervene at times.

 

The divine plan you reference, I believe, is simple (of course, I am a simple guy who often sees things in black & white with no gray). God's plan, or I think the better word is God's desire is that each person enter a personal relationship with Christ, continue to grow in that relationship, do as much as possible to bring other people into the same relationship, & live life honoring the two great commandments (love God & love people).

 

Your words concerning prayer are well thought-out. There is one aspect of prayer that seems so simple (and it is); but there is another aspect to it that is not so simple (like James' words that the "prayer of a righteous man is powerful & effective"...like Scripture's teaching that when we ask, we should not doubt...like the damaging effect a lack of forgiveness has on the part of a person praying, etc.).

 

Again, there is much of this kind of study that I don't believe we can or will ever know on this side of eternity. There are questions we have that will always be left unanswered. That, as I said earlier, is where the faith element comes in. We don't know everything, but there is One who does; and I believe Him to be more than deserving of my trust.

[Alabama Larry]

I had two near death experinces. Both times it wasn't luck, but after all I have learned it was God.

 

There is four different times in the Bible where God changed his mind.

[Jim Schue]

But I don't think God is the cause of the child suffering. He hates it more than anyone, and he suffers right along side the child. The suffering comes, not from God, but from the world.

 

Hogwash. If God knows all outcomes, and takes an active role in day-to-day life, HE is the cause of the child suffering, and has the power to end that child's suffering rather than extending it. Or, by extension, HE is the cause of the world being such a messed-up place, considering He made it and knew the outcome, as you pose.

[Habib]

I believe there are times when God intervenes & times when He does not. Identifying those instances (either when He does or does not) is the difficult part. I feel like I can look back at specific moments when, at the time, I didn't recognize God at work. But in retrospect, I feel like He was intervening & charting a course that I could not have found on my own.

 

Now, do I believe that God intervenes in every instance, or that He purposes every single jot-and-tiddle of life? No, I don't. I believe free will, for the most part, rules the day. But I firmly believe He does intervene at times.

 

For what reason or purpose does God intervene? If our rewards are in heaven, why bestow some to a few on earth? If his intervention is to help is along or to manage our paths then what choice do we have but to follow those paths? It's all very perplexing to me.

 

The divine plan you reference, I believe, is simple (of course, I am a simple guy who often sees things in black & white with no gray). God's plan, or I think the better word is God's desire is that each person enter a personal relationship with Christ, continue to grow in that relationship, do as much as possible to bring other people into the same relationship, & live life honoring the two great commandments (love God & love people).

 

Your words concerning prayer are well thought-out. There is one aspect of prayer that seems so simple (and it is); but there is another aspect to it that is not so simple (like James' words that the "prayer of a righteous man is powerful & effective"...like Scripture's teaching that when we ask, we should not doubt...like the damaging effect a lack of forgiveness has on the part of a person praying, etc.).

 

Again, there is much of this kind of study that I don't believe we can or will ever know on this side of eternity. There are questions we have that will always be left unanswered. That, as I said earlier, is where the faith element comes in. We don't know everything, but there is One who does; and I believe Him to be more than deserving of my trust.

 

That's all very well put.

[Randy Parker]

It's all very perplexing to me.

 

On why God intervenes when he intervenes, these words were taken right out of my mouth.

[Alabama Larry]

God knows every hair on our head, and yet we are questioning him and judging him. He is God the creator of the Universe, he doesn't have to answer to us for what he does. Its like go out into your yard and pick up an ant and bring him inside and set him down beside you at your PC and say.."Ok ant here is the internet and I'm gonna explain it all to you".

[Jim Schue]

God knows every hair on our head, and yet we are questioning him and judging him. He is God the creator of the Universe, he doesn't have to answer to us for what he does. Its like go out into your yard and pick up an ant and bring him inside and set him down beside you at your PC and say.."Ok ant here is the internet and I'm gonna explain it all to you".

 

Then why not just make us all mindless savages, acting purely on instinct? You know, like the ant?

[Run To State]

Then why not just make us all mindless savages, acting purely on instinct? You know, like the ant?

We can't even begin to know or understand God's plan. It will be revealed when the time comes, until then, we have our faith.

[Birdsfan]

Instead of asking "Why does suffering exist?" we should be asking, "How can we respond to suffering. What can we do now?" Our trust in a compassionate God allows us to move beyond questions of cause and move forward with peace and hope.

[Run To State]

Instead of asking "Why does suffering exist?" we should be asking, "How can we respond to suffering. What can we do now?" Our trust in a compassionate God allows us to move beyond questions of cause and move forward with peace and hope.

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