No, we determine our own destiny, as it pertains to our ultimate end.

 

I agree about the ultimate end, but you said that chance doesn't play a role in the circumstances we are born into. That implies deliberate intent on the part of God. What myself and others are curious about is why God would "bless" someone with a wonderful life simply due to their status upon birth and why others are born into abject and perpetual poverty.

I agree about the ultimate end, but you said that chance doesn't play a role in the circumstances we are born into. That implies deliberate intent on the part of God. What myself and others are curious about is why God would "bless" someone with a wonderful life simply due to their status upon birth and why others are born into abject and perpetual poverty.

 

I don't know if He purposes it in each human instance, but if He does, I again harken back to Isaiah 55--His ways are not our ways & His thoughts not our thoughts.

No. It's not one or the other -- it's neither. There are no "no-win" situations when it comes to a person's soul. "Good choices" can be made by anyone. Your personal circumstances have nothing to do with it. And again, I will not (as no one should) attempt to place myself in God's role as ultimate judge. You're telling us how you think God should judge a particular person. Well, God's ways are not our ways, and his wisdom is far beyond our comprehension.

 

Sorry, but a 12-year-old kid with three younger siblings and a mom on crack and no dad anywhere to be found is most certainly put in a no-win situation. Kind of hard to expect that kid to make good choices when all he can hear is his siblings crying because they're hungry and cold. Not too many people are hiring 12-year-olds, except for drug dealers.

Sorry, but a 12-year-old kid with three younger siblings and a mom on crack and no dad anywhere to be found is most certainly put in a no-win situation. Kind of hard to expect that kid to make good choices when all he can hear is his siblings crying because they're hungry and cold. Not too many people are hiring 12-year-olds, except for drug dealers.

There is always a win for the soul. What is a "good choice" and what is not, is all relative. Do you think God is incapable of sorting out good from evil...right from wrong...necessity from convenience? God doesn't expect the poor man to make the same decisions as the rich man; but he does expect him to make the best, most righteous, choice he can in any situation.

I have follow-up question. Assuming that this is God's plan, why did God choose to do it this way? What is the reason for allowing a sin-tainted world and all the results of that?

 

Obviously, this is simply a guess on our parts, but it is a question many people have considered at some point, IMO.

Jim, try thinking long term as in "eternity". Did you read the verse Luke 16:19, there are reasons we use verses to show our points, but if you choose not to read them...

Jim, try thinking long term as in "eternity". Did you read the verse Luke 16:19, there are reasons we use verses to show our points, but if you choose not to read them...

 

Mostly because I tend to tune out when people start tossing out Bible verses, since folks have a tendency to cherry-pick Bible phrases to support arguments while at the same time glossing over or outright ignoring ones that don't suit their preconceived notions.

Mostly because I tend to tune out when people start tossing out Bible verses, since folks have a tendency to cherry-pick Bible phrases to support arguments while at the same time glossing over or outright ignoring ones that don't suit their preconceived notions.

Like notes in a musical chord, there do seem to be points of contradiction in individual scriptures; however, taken as a whole, and interpreted in the proper context, the scriptures make perfect sense and perfect harmony.

Like notes in a musical chord, there do seem to be points of contradiction in individual scriptures; however, taken as a whole, and interpreted in the proper context, the scriptures make perfect sense and perfect harmony.

 

Therein lies the problem -- everybody's got their own interpretation of it, usually massaged to fit their own personal needs.

Therein lies the problem -- everybody's got their own interpretation of it, usually massaged to fit their own personal needs.

Such is life.

Such is life.

 

I guess, but since so many people go out of their way to twist the Bible around to suit their own personal needs, I find it very easy to ignore folks who toss out Bible verses as ammunition for a debate, or seizing upon some whacked-out idea their preacher bellowed on about in Sunday's sermon, rather than trying to think for themselves.

Like notes in a musical chord, there do seem to be points of contradiction in individual scriptures; however, taken as a whole, and interpreted in the proper context, the scriptures make perfect sense and perfect harmony.

 

Very well said! :thumb:

Jim, Its a story Jesus tells about a very poor man on earth and a very rich man, the poor man spends eternity in heaven, and the rich man is forever in torment. Rich man only cared about himself. So, its not really just a verse or two.

 

For BGPs people

My 14 year old asked me why does some people don't believe the Bible is true. He said some of the stories are just so different that a man couldn't have made then up. I told him of one where a man daughters want to get their dad drunk to have a babys with him, he thought I was making this one up. God doesn't lie.

Jim, Its a story Jesus tells about a very poor man on earth and a very rich man, the poor man spends eternity in heaven, and the rich man is forever in torment. Rich man only cared about himself. So, its not really just a verse or two.

 

For BGPs people

My 14 year old asked me why does some people don't believe the Bible is true. He said some of the stories are just so different that a man couldn't have made then up. I told him of one where a man daughters want to get their dad drunk to have a babys with him, he thought I was making this one up. God doesn't lie.

 

I've always felt that the way the Bible portrays some of its heroes (I'm thinking David, Peter, & Paul mainly) lends it tremendous credibility. These are men that are considered giants, yet have pasts that are checkered, shame-filled, and downright criminal. I acknowledge not being incredibly familiar with other religions' source of written authority, but I would have a hard time believing they're as candid as that of the Bible.

 

And I haven't even touched on Jesus' family tree & the many bad apples contained in it.

 

Several people accuse the Bible of being inconsistent, contradictory, etc. But I've always felt it to be a book that is just the opposite. From my vantage point, it just doesn't read like a lie.

Jim, Its a story Jesus tells about a very poor man on earth and a very rich man, the poor man spends eternity in heaven, and the rich man is forever in torment. Rich man only cared about himself. So, its not really just a verse or two.

 

For BGPs people

My 14 year old asked me why does some people don't believe the Bible is true. He said some of the stories are just so different that a man couldn't have made then up. I told him of one where a man daughters want to get their dad drunk to have a babys with him, he thought I was making this one up. God doesn't lie.

 

I've read the Bible multiple times. Thanks, but I don't need a primer.