Whats wrong with Highlands basketball

[Bird Bath]

I am a football guy and I know that is getting done right, but Mom was a talented basketball player at HHS and she wonders what is happening? No fans at games, etc. I know that those who are posting have boys that are talented enough to play multiple sports. A very good 7th and 8th grade baseball class. Strong basketball players and some good football players the next few years could be interesting.

[Clyde]

I disagree with my friend TOG on the gym issue. If a kid isn't playing basketball because of a gym he's not one that's long for a team. The gym is fine . Not great but fine. I like the intimacy and it's obviously big enough for 95% of HHS games. The gym didn't bother Smith and Lorenzon.

 

Lack of success accompanied with outstanding football success along with kids specializing in a particular sport has hurt baseball and basketball at HHS.

 

I also disagree with those thinking a head coach being at 6th grade games is going to cause a kid to stick with basketball 3 or 4 years later. Kids either want to play or they do not.

[doubledeuce]

I disagree with my friend TOG on the gym issue. If a kid isn't playing basketball because of a gym he's not one that's long for a team. The gym is fine . Not great but fine. I like the intimacy and it's obviously big enough for 95% of HHS games. The gym didn't bother Smith and Lorenzon.

 

Lack of success accompanied with outstanding football success along with kids specializing in a particular sport has hurt baseball and basketball at HHS.

 

I also disagree with those thinking a head coach being at 6th grade games is going to cause a kid to stick with basketball 3 or 4 years later. Kids either want to play or they do not.

 

 

:thumb:

[keyplayer]

I disagree with my friend TOG on the gym issue. If a kid isn't playing basketball because of a gym he's not one that's long for a team. The gym is fine . Not great but fine. I like the intimacy and it's obviously big enough for 95% of HHS games. The gym didn't bother Smith and Lorenzon.

 

Lack of success accompanied with outstanding football success along with kids specializing in a particular sport has hurt baseball and basketball at HHS.

 

I also disagree with those thinking a head coach being at 6th grade games is going to cause a kid to stick with basketball 3 or 4 years later. Kids either want to play or they do not.

 

Have to agree with Clyde. While a new gym would be nice, a kid either wants to, or can, play the game or does/can-not. I have a boy that plays both football and basketball. IMO it is cyclical. The middle school teams are playing hard and working on basics...Heck, I was at a 6th grade HMS girls game and they have 14-16 girls on that team. I have coached numerous teams, in multiple sports, and can tell you that I would NOT want that to have to work out playing time with that group. It is a sign of the times. Back in the early to mid 80's boys played 2-3 sports without issue. Today, kids are focusing on 1, maybe 2. Right or wrong, it is a sign of the times. Football is king at HHS. From the high school level to the pros....look at the tv ratings for football games (college and pros). It is what it is. Football rules and not just at the high school level. Would love to see a new gym (coming in phase 3) and more interest in hoops at HHS. But HHS is basically following the trend...It is NOT a coaching issue. Coach Flynn was at open gyms at the middle school every week following basketball season last spring. Good guy, good coach.

[keyplayer]

The basketball program is broken and needs to be fixed. The FTJFL does a great job of producing players for the football team but there is no such device for basketball. Coach Flynn is very nice guy but does he get the student body excited about playing basketball for Highlands? Moyer league might be a starting point but that is still a question mark. The MS teams do not involve as many players as possible like football, there needs to be multiple teams at the 6,7,8th levels. I'm sure enough coaches would step forward and the fort can be used for practices. When my son was in the eighth grade there are two players from that team (JR's) that now play basketball!! The program attracts players and coaches and right now the HHS basketball is not very appealing.

 

In my opinion it is not a product of the middle school or high school. It is a product of the elementary schools NOT sponsoring teams. At the elementary level is where you gain the fundamentals, work ethic and love for the game, regardless of what that game is. Yes, some of the schools provide gym time, but there is no elementary school sponsorship, support, etc.. There is elementary school leagues. So, it is not that there is a lack of options. Just a lack of support. Typically, it is up to volunteer parents to put together an AAU or school team, find a league, etc.. Perhaps more support at the elementary school level would be beneficial. Just a thought....

[Preachit]

But is it not true that you get out of it what you put into it? IF the school, or community, or parents, or whoever does not put as much time or resources into basketball as they do football, then one would expect basketball to not be as succesfull as football? Am I wrong in thinking that it is as simple as that?

[Flotsam]

Highlands has fielded pretty strong teams over the past several years. Not regional champs, but very respectable. They have had some bad luck with injuries. The team with Simpson, McGraw, Kowolonek, Watson, Grubbs, et. al was very tough. When Coach Schlarman left, the cupboard was far from bare. Losing Grubbs last year was a major blow. I recall Kowolonek and some others being dinged up as well. When Cov. Cath. lost Shover and others to illness/injuries 2 years ago they dropped off the map. Other than Highlands in football and Holmes in basketball, most programs go through a dry cycle. The Birds will be fine.

[Mustang]

It's the tip of the specialized sports iceberg. More pronounced and more advanced at Highlands because of the overwhelming success/tradition of their football program. The other sports programs are going to have to stop coveting their neighbors goods and start developing their own programs. Sharing football players isn't the answer.

 

Kids everywhere are being driven to become specialized one-sport athletes. We are even seeing it at Brossart, a small school of 362, where we have to share athletes to be successful. Many coaches (everywhere) are turfy about their programs and want to grab up as many players and put them in their baskets as possible.

 

There used to be seasons - baseball in the spring, football in the fall, basketball in the winter, with soccer somewhere in between. Now there are sports - not seasons and kids are being forced to play a sport. Club this and Select that, AAU the other, with (voluntary/mandatory) Open Gyms and Fields when not in season - year round.

 

At Highlands, because of the popularity of football, and the lack of a quality feeder program, basketball loses out. Towles, Highlands' football's prime commodity is a basketball player. so there are exceptions, but not enough to hang your hat on.

 

Starting a good feeder basketball program would be a good place to start. It would help identify and possibly keep and develop basketball players in the program. At a school the size of Highlands there should be enough quality athletes who choose to be soccer players to have a good soccer program, basketball players to have a good basketball program, and baseball players to still have a good baseball program, despite having to live with, and function in the shadow of the football monster.

 

Starting your basketball season during the third week of December would not a benefit, it would be a huge detriment. Having a nice facility would be an asset, but merely icing on the cake (excuse the pun). It starts at the bottom, in the grade schools and in the feeder programs. Athletes aren't going to walk into Highlands High School as freshmen, look around and decide to be basketball players. That decision was made long ago, and if football is first to the dance and shows an interest - another potential Highlands basketball player bites the dust. It might be something as simple as rings.

[Qryche11]

I love Leathernecks ideas and he is absolutely right. However, there is some positives that have come from the Moyer league being developed. It has teams competing from eacj grade school. I watched my older son get involved with AAU at an early age and it was a lot of fun for him and he became a better player. I urge all kids that love basketball to get involved in both the Moyer league as well as AAU.

 

You will never be able to match the storied FTJRFL nor will the basketball program be able to outsell the football program to kids. There are obviously more state championships to be had in football with the watered down classification. It is what it is and kids see those state championships and buy in from the getgo. In hoops you have a much more difficult time achieving the same success. With that said there still is no reason they shouldnt be competing for the 9th Region title. You look at ,ast uears SR class who went downstate as 8th graders and beat some great teams. They had some key injuries last year and qouldnt it have been nice to see a David Hogue 6'5, Austin Collinsworth or Brandon Roller come off the bench? Hogue quit like the others after frosh year and for what ? To punt on friday nights? I get AC and Roller but then you also had 6'4 Bardo who opted to not play.

 

As long as some of the kids who can help the basketball program continue to drink Dale's Blue Kool Aid you will have these problems. As far as coach Flynn goes he is about as enthusiastic a coach as I have ever seen. You want to point fingers about kids being turned off to tje program then look at the previous coach. Coach Flynn was there all summer working camps and being very positive and proactive. Its only his 2nd season, lets let him get his feet wet before we expect him to coordinate a feeder program or win a state championship. You gotta remember that group last year was an inherited bunch and even though they had injuries, dont be fooled to think there werent issues with SRs buying into his philosophies.

[leatherneck]

I love Leathernecks ideas and he is absolutely right. However, there is some positives that have come from the Moyer league being developed. It has teams competing from eacj grade school. I watched my older son get involved with AAU at an early age and it was a lot of fun for him and he became a better player. I urge all kids that love basketball to get involved in both the Moyer league as well as AAU.

 

You will never be able to match the storied FTJRFL nor will the basketball program be able to outsell the football program to kids. There are obviously more state championships to be had in football with the watered down classification. It is what it is and kids see those state championships and buy in from the getgo. In hoops you have a much more difficult time achieving the same success. With that said there still is no reason they shouldnt be competing for the 9th Region title. You look at ,ast uears SR class who went downstate as 8th graders and beat some great teams. They had some key injuries last year and qouldnt it have been nice to see a David Hogue 6'5, Austin Collinsworth or Brandon Roller come off the bench? Hogue quit like the others after frosh year and for what ? To punt on friday nights? I get AC and Roller but then you also had 6'4 Bardo who opted to not play.

 

As long as some of the kids who can help the basketball program continue to drink Dale's Blue Kool Aid you will have these problems. As far as coach Flynn goes he is about as enthusiastic a coach as I have ever seen. You want to point fingers about kids being turned off to tje program then look at the previous coach. Coach Flynn was there all summer working camps and being very positive and proactive. Its only his 2nd season, lets let him get his feet wet before we expect him to coordinate a feeder program or win a state championship. You gotta remember that group last year was an inherited bunch and even though they had injuries, dont be fooled to think there werent issues with SRs buying into his philosophies.

 

Nice post Qryche, and not just because you liked my ideas. LOL.

 

Seems like each basketball and baseball season, the theme of some in this thread returns. Yes Highlands is a football school. Deal with it. No one, absolutely no one, is forcing kids to play one sport over the other. Football is a big deal in Ft. Thomas and has been for a long time and will be unless we intentionally start doing things to hurt the program. As opposed to the Lorenzen/Smith days, in order to continue to win state championships most kids, the average Highlands football players that Rash was referring to when he said Highlands turns 5'8" 180 pound kids into maniacs, almost have to work year around if they want to win state. The kids are choosing on their own to do so. Is that wrong? Should Dale and the administration force kids to play other sports? Should we shut down the football off season conditioning program to induce kids to play basketball and baseball? Why should it be sad as JOAT referred to it that the other 3 sports have taken a backseat to football because kids in Ft. Thomas prefer football over those sports ? If that's what they choose, so be it. I'm just glad that they are participating in athletics and off the street corner and off the couch. Yeah, I wish Austin, Brandon, Will, David and Nick had played basketball, baseball and track because I think they'd have really helped those programs win more. But I don't begrudge them and I certainly don't begrudge the football program because those kids chose not to stay with those sports.

 

Many lament the decrease in the number of multiple sport athletes. Why? Is it a commandment that kids are supposed to play multiple sports? I don't think so. Personally I think the lamenting comes more from the Dads wanting to relive their past high school days through their kids. The Dads played multiple sports and perhaps were very good in multiple sports and they want their kids to do so also. Perhaps for bragging rights, I don't know. Perhaps Hogue would have played more minutes on the hard court than he logged on the grid iron this past season. Knowing David well, I'm confident that if he had to make the choice all over again, he wouldn't have done anything different. Great kid whose contributions to the football team the 4 years he played should not in any way be taken lightly.

 

Look, I'd like Highlands to be as successful in basketball and baseball as they are in football. I'm a Highlands guy. Not a Highlands football guy. If those sports can get better if some football players play those sports, I'm all for it if the kids want to do so. But rather than sit back and hope a bunch of football players start playing those sports, if I'm a big supporter of those sports I'm spending less time on here pointing out how the foobtall program's success hurts those sports and spending more time improving those sports on the youth and high school level. Whether it's raising money for the high school teams or raising money to send younger kids to individual camps or improving the youth leagues.

 

And I agree with you about Flynn. I liked Willie a lot. But Flynn is very enthusiastic when I've spoken with him on multiple occassions (at football games ironically). He stands in the endzone next to me. He's constantly talking to his high school players, younger kids, their Dads and basketball supporters throughout the games. If people give him some time, he'll build one heck of a program. And I agree with you about some of last year Seniors not buying into his philosophies. Not sure that was the whole problem though. There were other issues and the injuries sure didn't help.

[malachicrunch]

You'd have a great point if....the administration had put a bunch of money into the football field. It hasn't. The school didn't put a penny into the turf or the new lights either. Heck, I don't think it paid to upgrade the PA system either.

 

I'm sure the administration puts more money into the football program in general; then again, there are more students playing football so it's only logical that more money would go into football.

 

A new gym is planned. I believe it's in phase 3 of the renovation project. All those people complaining about the need for a new gym should quit going on Spring Break and donate the savings to the cost of the new gym. Heck, that'd help the baseball program too if their sons are baseball players. Form a committee to raise money for the new gym. Don't go home at night and plop down on the couch and grab a cold one. Find the phone numbers of former basketball players and supporters and call them up and ask for money. See if the NBA or corporations with an interest in high school basketball becoming more popular have grants. Hit up the local Wal Mart to see if the home office can make a gift. Seems like every football stadium I go to has Wal Mart as a sponsor. Approach some banks. Is there a basketball oriented fundraising club like the Sideline Club or the Dugout Club (or whatever Jeremy calls it)? If so, join. If not approach Coach Flynn about starting one.

 

 

By the way, I am a little surprised people are crying that the sky is falling. It's only Flynn's second year and they played, what 4 games so far this year.

 

Well you said the same thing in Willie's second year when I raised concerns. Believe me, the basketball program is not good at HHS, and there are really no signs of it turning around. I just wonder why?

[Qryche11]

Well you said the same thing in Willie's second year when I raised concerns. Believe me, the basketball program is not good at HHS, and there are really no signs of it turning around. I just wonder why?

 

Not good? I will disagree with you there. I think they have had their struggles over the past few years with injuries and kids not coming out. I think when you have ZERO Sr's on a team that is a problem and reflects on how the kids were developed or coached. If you measure being good with winning 9th Region championships then I might agree but lets face it, Holmes has had some dynamite teams over the past 5 yrs and even when Highlands had Vories/Smith/Johnson or Simpson/McGraw they had to deal with injuries or just being outcoached, especially in the Regional Tournament.

 

What you have now is a coach who really cares about the program and is enthusiastic unlike the last coach who may be a good guy and good teacher but IMO didnt really care about the program. In fact, he did the honorable thing by stepping down and letting someone else lead the program. The new coach also has to compete with the success that football has had with 4 state championships in a row along with the year round conditioning and extended season that football brings. I dont think kids should have to choose but it has to be very difficult if you really want to compete for a football position on one side of the ball if you are not participating in Spring football and weights. Over the summer you would hope that some of those 2 sport guys could mix in some hoops which (McCoy,Turner, New, True) all did and I commend them for that. They seem to really enjoy playing hoops and gave their time to get better this summer. You also gotta remember that these are kids who sometimes need a break. You take all the work they put in for football and the long season and then go right into hoops where you have to re-condition your body. Once hoops are over you have to jump right into Spring football, it can wear on a kid mentally as well.

[malachicrunch]

Not good? I will disagree with you there. I think they have had their struggles over the past few years with injuries and kids not coming out. I think when you have ZERO Sr's on a team that is a problem and reflects on how the kids were developed or coached. If you measure being good with winning 9th Region championships then I might agree but lets face it, Holmes has had some dynamite teams over the past 5 yrs and even when Highlands had Vories/Smith/Johnson or Simpson/McGraw they had to deal with injuries or just being outcoached, especially in the Regional Tournament.

 

What you have now is a coach who really cares about the program and is enthusiastic unlike the last coach who may be a good guy and good teacher but IMO didnt really care about the program. In fact, he did the honorable thing by stepping down and letting someone else lead the program. The new coach also has to compete with the success that football has had with 4 state championships in a row along with the year round conditioning and extended season that football brings. I dont think kids should have to choose but it has to be very difficult if you really want to compete for a football position on one side of the ball if you are not participating in Spring football and weights. Over the summer you would hope that some of those 2 sport guys could mix in some hoops which (McCoy,Turner, New, True) all did and I commend them for that. They seem to really enjoy playing hoops and gave their time to get better this summer. You also gotta remember that these are kids who sometimes need a break. You take all the work they put in for football and the long season and then go right into hoops where you have to re-condition your body. Once hoops are over you have to jump right into Spring football, it can wear on a kid mentally as well.

I completely understand what you are saying. However none of that is different that what was in the past. My question is simply, why has Highlands dropped off in basketball from where they were the last couple of decades? I just don't see playing the football card as the crutch here. Football has always been numero uno in Ft. Thomas, but we also have had some very good basketball teams. Imagine a Highland football alum coming back from out of town and was told that the football program has not had a title, and has had losing seasons in the past 8 years. I think he would ask, what the heck happened. I think my question is fair. What the heck happened?

[Preachit]

I completely understand what you are saying. However none of that is different that what was in the past. My question is simply, why has Highlands dropped off in basketball from where they were the last couple of decades? I just don't see playing the football card as the crutch here. Football has always been numero uno in Ft. Thomas, but we also have had some very good basketball teams. Imagine a Highland football alum coming back from out of town and was told that the football program has not had a title, and has had losing seasons in the past 8 years. I think he would ask, what the heck happened. I think my question is fair. What the heck happened?

 

So what do you think the answer is? If you had to make one statement to answer the question, what would the statement be?

[malachicrunch]

So what do you think the answer is? If you had to make one statement to answer the question, what would the statement be?

 

How about a name? Ken Shields.