Question for officials:

[Hatz]

Hey Mr. Official.....here's a question.

 

Two years ago, at a Fort Campbell Falcon game, the following scenario played out:

 

QB took the snap in the shotgun formation.

QB brilliantly faked the handoff to the RB on a trap and ran down the field to the endzone.

RB brilliantly faked the handoff reception, tucked his arms and ran through the line to be tackled roughly 10 yards down the field for a first down.

Stripe Shirt guy blows the whistle and calls the play dead and the RB tackled where he was tackled (for a first down).

QB had the ball in the endzone and the play was called back and it was Fort Campbell's ball, for a first down, where the RB was tackled.

 

That very play and result had happened more than once to the Falcons during that year.

 

Can any official shed some light on that one?

 

Later.

 

I've seen that happen many times with a good "belly" and "faking" QB.

 

Boyle's Andy Baker and C.T. Wolfe used to be great at that out of the T formation and about five times one year the ref blew the whistle when the FB was tackled on the Rub off play. :lol:

[popcorn]

If the pass was incomplete, the clock starts on the snap. Beyond that, it depends on the result of the play. See 3-4-3.

The pass was incomplete,the clock was started when the ball was put in play not on the snap.

[stick1]

Question for you:

When playing an option team (true triple option) is it legal to hit the tailback without the ball to take that phase of the option out of the play? We had an official earlier this year that said you couldn't and I still think he was wrong.

#2 We also had an official that said we couldn't make contact with a WR down the field when the ball wasn't in the air yet. I thought you could be physical all over the field unless the ball was in the air.

Thanks for the answers...

[HouseofPain]

Question for you:

When playing an option team (true triple option) is it legal to hit the tailback without the ball to take that phase of the option out of the play? We had an official earlier this year that said you couldn't and I still think he was wrong.

#2 We also had an official that said we couldn't make contact with a WR down the field when the ball wasn't in the air yet. I thought you could be physical all over the field unless the ball was in the air.

Thanks for the answers...

 

I am with you. That is how we coach it, 1 hit FB, 1 hits QB and ! hits pitch-man no matter what! I think that ref was wrong!IMO

[Clyde]

#2 We also had an official that said we couldn't make contact with a WR down the field when the ball wasn't in the air yet. I thought you could be physical all over the field unless the ball was in the air.

Thanks for the answers...

 

Its my understanding that you can make contact with the receiver UNTIL he becomes a receiver. In other words, once he turns his head to start looking for the ball (and even if the ball is not in there air) he is not allowed to be hit. I know a lot of coaches teach it otherwise but I'm pretty sure that's the rule.

[billwilliams70]

FIrst off, that is the WORST that the official will ever feel in his career.

 

Rule 4.2.3 Inadvertant Whistle. During a down, or during a down in which a penalty for a foul is declined, if an inadvertant whistle occurs while:

 

a. A legal forward pass or snap is in flight, or during a legal kick, the down shall be replayed.

 

b. The ball is loose following a backward pass, fumble, illegal forward pass, or illegal kick, the team last in possession may chose to put the ball in play where possession was lost or replay the down.

 

c. The ball is in player possession, that team may choose to accept the play at that spot or replay the down.

 

Note if an inadvertant whistle is sounded during a down in which a foul occurs prior to teh inadvertant whistle, and teh penalty is accepted, teh administration of the foul takes precedence over the inadvertant whistle.

 

So, in the case you listed, first off, would be rare that in with the one guy gettin gto teh end zone before the other guy goes 10 yards, but c would apply and the touchdown would be good. That is a big miss since the ball would be dead as soon as it crossed the end zone anyway.

Inadvertent whistle. The team in possession has the option of taking the result of the play at the spott of the runners progress where the play was blown dead, or replaying the down.

Thanks for the information, much appreciated.

 

Later.

[greeny94]

Its my understanding that you can make contact with the receiver UNTIL he becomes a receiver. In other words, once he turns his head to start looking for the ball (and even if the ball is not in there air) he is not allowed to be hit. I know a lot of coaches teach it otherwise but I'm pretty sure that's the rule.

 

He is a reciever as soon as he starts running his route, not when he looks back for the ball.

[offside]

Question for you:

When playing an option team (true triple option) is it legal to hit the tailback without the ball to take that phase of the option out of the play? We had an official earlier this year that said you couldn't and I still think he was wrong.

#2 We also had an official that said we couldn't make contact with a WR down the field when the ball wasn't in the air yet. I thought you could be physical all over the field unless the ball was in the air.

Thanks for the answers...

 

1. The defense may legally block an offensive player. It is also legal for the defense to tackle an offensive player who is believed to possess the ball (such as after a fake handoff). However, "tackling" the intended pitch man before he has the ball could/should result in defensive holding. A personal foul for targeting a defenseless player or a block below the waist is also possible. So, the key there is making a "legal block".

 

2. The defense may not initiate contact against an eligible receiver after he is no longer a potential blocker. Typically, that occurs when the eligible receiver has reached the same yardline as the defender. But, as in the case of a linebacker blowing up the drag route, if the eligible receiver isn't even looking at the defender he's also no longer a potential blocker.

 

That's the abridged version.

Edited September 30, 2009 by offside

[Clyde]

He is a reciever as soon as he starts running his route, not when he looks back for the ball.

 

How do you know when he's running a route vs just running at the db?

[offside]

He is a reciever as soon as he starts running his route, not when he looks back for the ball.

 

He is an eligible receiver by number (between 1-49, and 80-99) and position at the snap.

[stick1]

1. The defense may legally block an offensive player. It is also legal for the defense to tackle an offensive player who is believed to possess the ball (such as after a fake handoff). However, "tackling" the intended pitch man before he has the ball could/should result in defensive holding. A personal foul for targeting a defenseless player or a block below the waist is also possible. So, the key there is making a "legal block".

 

2. The defense may not initiate contact against an eligible receiver after he is no longer a potential blocker. Typically, that occurs when the eligible receiver has reached the same yardline as the defender. But, as in the case of a linebacker blowing up the drag route, if the eligible receiver isn't even looking at the defender he's also no longer a potential blocker.

 

That's the abridged version.

 

So if the pitch back is looking for the ball on option but hasn't received it can you blow him up as long as you don't wrap him up or hit him low?

[offside]

So if the pitch back is looking for the ball on option but hasn't received it can you blow him up as long as you don't wrap him up or hit him low?

 

The phrase "blow him up" has conotations of unnecessary roughness or targeting a defenseless player.

 

Put another way, the offfensive player can be legally blocked by the defender, and/or the defender may contact him while attempting to catch, bat or recover the backward pass.

Edited September 30, 2009 by offside

[Clyde]

He is an eligible receiver by number (between 1-49, and 80-99) and position at the snap.

 

At what point or what are you looking for in order to determine if its OK for the db to hit him?

[offside]

At what point or what are you looking for in order to determine if its OK for the db to hit him?

 

The defense may not initiate contact against an eligible receiver after he is no longer a potential blocker. Typically, that occurs when the eligible receiver has reached the same yardline as the defender. But, as in the case of a linebacker blowing up the drag route, if the eligible receiver isn't even looking at the defender he's also no longer a potential blocker.

[offside]

Over 1,000 views on a thread about rules questions? Brings a tear to of joy to my eye.

 

As you can see by the responses to this thread, many good refs are also members of BGP. So, please keep the questions coming (some of us even use BGP as an excuse to open up the rules book to find the answers).

 

I'm thinking of starting a thread about holding...