Question for officials:

[offside]

LOL

 

Getting your rules study in?

[Cat_n_the_Hat]

I read a rule recently that said it is illegal for a runner to hurdle a defender and the same day I seen this enforced in a Cali high school game. Is it also illegal for a defender to hurdle a lineman for instance on a field goal try? Just wondering if I read the rule right because I see runners hurdle defenders quite a bit but this was the first time I had ever seen it enforced.

[crunch2376]

I read a rule recently that said it is illegal for a runner to hurdle a defender and the same day I seen this enforced in a Cali high school game. Is it also illegal for a defender to hurdle a lineman for instance on a field goal try? Just wondering if I read the rule right because I see runners hurdle defenders quite a bit but this was the first time I had ever seen it enforced.

 

NFHS Rule Book:

Rule 2-22:

Hurdling is an attempt by a player to jump (hurdle) with one or both feet or

knees foremost over an opponent who is contacting the ground with no part of his body except one or both feet.

 

"If it doesn't fit, you must acquit"

[Colonels_Wear_Blue]

NFHS Rule Book:

Rule 2-22:

Hurdling is an attempt by a player to jump (hurdle) with one or both feet or

knees foremost over an opponent who is contacting the ground with no part of his body except one or both feet.

 

"If it doesn't fit, you must acquit"

 

Ahhh, okay. I'd heard about this rule, and questioned it1...as well as questioned why I'd never seen it enforced when ball carriers jumped over any number of players who've fallen on all fours or completely onto the ground. From what you're saying, sounds like this was my mis-interpretation?

[Hey-Ref]

Ok answer this one for me. I was listening to the Franklin County and Woodford County game. It was late in the game and Woodford punted they called a block in the back on Franklin County, and instead of FC getting the ball with the penalty they allowed Woodford to keep the ball marked off the penalty and gave them a first down. Never heard of this before. I could understand if it was holding on Franklin at the line before the kick, but they called block in the back.

 

If the foul by the receiving team occurred in or behind the nuetral zone, or simultaneous with the snap, then this enforcement is correct. If the foul occurred beyond the nuetral zone during the kick, then it should be PSK enforcement. PSK means the receiving team keeps the ball following enforcement of the foul from the end of the kick, or end of the return, whichever is worse for receiving team. PSK fouls were added to the NFHS rules a few years ago. PSK fouls already exist in NCAA and NFL, although their enforcements can vary.

[Hey-Ref]

What you list by the offense is not a penalty.

 

Rule 9-4-3h

ART. 3 . . . No player or nonplayer shall:

h. Grasp an opponent’s face mask, any edge of a helmet opening or the chin

strap.

 

foul for doing so....

incidental grasping = 5 yards; grasping and twisting, turning or pulling the

face mask or helmet opening or chin strap = 15 yards

 

Touching the face mask is not a foul.

[pigman]

Just a question as I've seen this happen more and more lately. A team goes for it on 3rd and short or 4th and short and a measurement is called for. Instead of running in and spotting the ball where it is they pick the ball up toss to the officail respot and then measure. Until recently I had never seen this done is this something being taught?

[offside]

Just a question as I've seen this happen more and more lately. A team goes for it on 3rd and short or 4th and short and a measurement is called for. Instead of running in and spotting the ball where it is they pick the ball up toss to the officail respot and then measure. Until recently I had never seen this done is this something being taught?

 

99% of the time, the wing officials will know whether forward progress will result in a first down or not without measuring. This is especially true in the last few years since the overall condition and markings on the fields have improved significantly. Without opening a can of worms here, we'll usualy start every series on the back edge of a yardline, so we know that we have to break the plane of the yardline 10 yards downfield for a first down.

 

But, we ought to be running in there with purpose to get the actual spot if there's ever any doubt. And we will measure if there's any doubt, or if it is necessary to prove what we already know.

[pigman]

Thanks, It just makes me feel better when they actually spot the ball where the runner went down instead of picking the ball up tossing it, respotting, and then measuring. Less room for error I guess.

[Hey-Ref]

Just a question as I've seen this happen more and more lately. A team goes for it on 3rd and short or 4th and short and a measurement is called for. Instead of running in and spotting the ball where it is they pick the ball up toss to the officail respot and then measure. Until recently I had never seen this done is this something being taught?

 

The wing officials, Line Judge and Linesman (chains), who start every play on the sidelines at the line of scrimmage, have responsibility for forward progress on nearly every play. They judge forward progress and mark the spot with their feet. They do not, however, come all the way to where the ball lays, because they have to keep all players on the field in front of them. If the ball is at their feet already, there is no need to move it. If the ball is away from them, another official will give them the ball to place at their feet. Notice, the wing officials will not move from the spot until the ball is placed.

 

There are generally only two reasons to measure for the first down. One, because the officials cannot determine if it should be a first down and they need to find out. And two, they already know if it is or is not, and they want everyone present to know what they already know.

 

When watching a game you can tell if the line to gain is threatened by watching the wing officials. Assuming no fouls, if they signal to stop the clock, it is either very close to, or actually is, a first down. Then wait for the Referee to signal the next down or a new series.

[billwilliams70]

Hey Mr. Official.....here's a question.

 

Two years ago, at a Fort Campbell Falcon game, the following scenario played out:

 

QB took the snap in the shotgun formation.

QB brilliantly faked the handoff to the RB on a trap and ran down the field to the endzone.

RB brilliantly faked the handoff reception, tucked his arms and ran through the line to be tackled roughly 10 yards down the field for a first down.

Stripe Shirt guy blows the whistle and calls the play dead and the RB tackled where he was tackled (for a first down).

QB had the ball in the endzone and the play was called back and it was Fort Campbell's ball, for a first down, where the RB was tackled.

 

That very play and result had happened more than once to the Falcons during that year.

 

Can any official shed some light on that one?

 

Later.

[zebraman]

Hey Mr. Official.....here's a question.

 

Two years ago, at a Fort Campbell Falcon game, the following scenario played out:

 

QB took the snap in the shotgun formation.

QB brilliantly faked the handoff to the RB on a trap and ran down the field to the endzone.

RB brilliantly faked the handoff reception, tucked his arms and ran through the line to be tackled roughly 10 yards down the field for a first down.

Stripe Shirt guy blows the whistle and calls the play dead and the RB tackled where he was tackled (for a first down).

QB had the ball in the endzone and the play was called back and it was Fort Campbell's ball, for a first down, where the RB was tackled.

 

That very play and result had happened more than once to the Falcons during that year.

 

Can any official shed some light on that one?

 

Later.

 

 

FIrst off, that is the WORST that the official will ever feel in his career.

 

Rule 4.2.3 Inadvertant Whistle. During a down, or during a down in which a penalty for a foul is declined, if an inadvertant whistle occurs while:

 

a. A legal forward pass or snap is in flight, or during a legal kick, the down shall be replayed.

 

b. The ball is loose following a backward pass, fumble, illegal forward pass, or illegal kick, the team last in possession may chose to put the ball in play where possession was lost or replay the down.

 

c. The ball is in player possession, that team may choose to accept the play at that spot or replay the down.

 

Note if an inadvertant whistle is sounded during a down in which a foul occurs prior to teh inadvertant whistle, and teh penalty is accepted, teh administration of the foul takes precedence over the inadvertant whistle.

 

 

 

So, in the case you listed, first off, would be rare that in with the one guy gettin gto teh end zone before the other guy goes 10 yards, but c would apply and the touchdown would be good. That is a big miss since the ball would be dead as soon as it crossed the end zone anyway.

[offside]

Hey Mr. Official.....here's a question.

 

Two years ago, at a Fort Campbell Falcon game, the following scenario played out:

 

QB took the snap in the shotgun formation.

QB brilliantly faked the handoff to the RB on a trap and ran down the field to the endzone.

RB brilliantly faked the handoff reception, tucked his arms and ran through the line to be tackled roughly 10 yards down the field for a first down.

Stripe Shirt guy blows the whistle and calls the play dead and the RB tackled where he was tackled (for a first down).

QB had the ball in the endzone and the play was called back and it was Fort Campbell's ball, for a first down, where the RB was tackled.

 

That very play and result had happened more than once to the Falcons during that year.

 

Can any official shed some light on that one?

 

Later.

 

Inadvertent whistle. The team in possession has the option of taking the result of the play at the spott of the runners progress where the play was blown dead, or replaying the down.

Edited September 29, 2009 by offside

[someguy]

Rule 9-4-3h

ART. 3 . . . No player or nonplayer shall:

h. Grasp an opponent’s face mask, any edge of a helmet opening or the chin

strap.

 

foul for doing so....

incidental grasping = 5 yards; grasping and twisting, turning or pulling the

face mask or helmet opening or chin strap = 15 yards

 

Touching the face mask is not a foul.

 

What about Hands to the Face, is there such a call in High School? I think there is in the NFL.:confused:

[Hey-Ref]

What about Hands to the Face, is there such a call in High School? I think there is in the NFL.:confused:

 

Under Federation rules there is adefintion of Blocking, which includes the following for open hand blocking...

 

3. Inside the frame of the opponent’s body, except when the opponent

turns his back to the blocker during the block or after the blocker is

committed to his charge. The frame of the opponent’s body is at the

shoulders or below other than the back.

 

If flagrant the officials could possibly call this a PF for an unnecessarily rough act.

 

However, if the blocker first contacts his opponent below the shoulders and his hands slide up and under the face mask, it is probably not a foul.