Umpire Question

[Jumper_Dad]

I know that we have several certified Umpires on here and several others with a wealth of baseball knowledge. 

Scenario: No outs, runner on first. Ground ball hit to short. SS goes to tag 2nd for force and then throw on to 1B. However SS stumbles and falls on the way to 2B. With the ball in his right hand and him lying on the ground, he reaches out and slaps 2B with an empty glove just before the runner slides in. 

I've argued this with 3 others, but admittedly none of us are 100% on the rule. We all base our argument on what we "Think" is right.

So...Out or Safe at 2B?

If there is a rule that covers this scenario explicitly, I'd love to see it.

[TheDeuce]

If the ball is secure, it’s an out. It doesn’t have to be in the glove.

[Voice of Reason]

2 hours ago, Jumper_Dad said:

I know that we have several certified Umpires on here and several others with a wealth of baseball knowledge. 

Scenario: No outs, runner on first. Ground ball hit to short. SS goes to tag 2nd for force and then throw on to 1B. However SS stumbles and falls on the way to 2B. With the ball in his right hand and him lying on the ground, he reaches out and slaps 2B with an empty glove just before the runner slides in. 

I've argued this with 3 others, but admittedly none of us are 100% on the rule. We all base our argument on what we "Think" is right.

So...Out or Safe at 2B?

If there is a rule that covers this scenario explicitly, I'd love to see it.

What is the difference between this and a fielder stepping on the base with the ball in his hand?

This seems clear and simple to me. The runner is out.

Am I missing something?

[Jumper_Dad]

7 hours ago, Voice of Reason said:

What is the difference between this and a fielder stepping on the base with the ball in his hand?

This seems clear and simple to me. The runner is out.

Am I missing something?

Not missing anything, but I've had people argue that he was safe. I made to same point that you guys did and they didn't care.

There is also a similar (but not exactly the same) video on-line, that people are arguing over. 

[TheDeuce]

1 hour ago, Jumper_Dad said:

Not missing anything, but I've had people argue that he was safe. I made to same point that you guys did and they didn't care.

There is also a similar (but not exactly the same) video on-line, that people are arguing over. 

My mind immediately went to all the times, specifically in a double play scenario, where the ball would be in the non-glove hand as the SS touched 2B with his foot. Your scenario is exactly the same IMO. 

[Voice of Reason]

1 hour ago, Jumper_Dad said:

Not missing anything, but I've had people argue that he was safe. I made to same point that you guys did and they didn't care.

There is also a similar (but not exactly the same) video on-line, that people are arguing over. 

Well, welcome to 2022 I guess. There are a lot of clear, factual things these days that people refuse to believe.

🤔

[4 Quarters]

19 hours ago, Jumper_Dad said:

I know that we have several certified Umpires on here and several others with a wealth of baseball knowledge. 

Scenario: No outs, runner on first. Ground ball hit to short. SS goes to tag 2nd for force and then throw on to 1B. However SS stumbles and falls on the way to 2B. With the ball in his right hand and him lying on the ground, he reaches out and slaps 2B with an empty glove just before the runner slides in. 

I've argued this with 3 others, but admittedly none of us are 100% on the rule. We all base our argument on what we "Think" is right.

So...Out or Safe at 2B?

If there is a rule that covers this scenario explicitly, I'd love to see it.

The runner is out.  If the runner is being tagged by the defensive player it has to be with the ball.

[The Raven]

If it's a force play all they have to do is touch the bag.  As has been stated, as long as the ball is secure, runner is out.   On a tag play, the tag must be applied with the hand controlling the ball.

[REALSPORT]

If the fielder is touching the bag on a force it can certainly be with the glove.  If he is tagging the player it has to be with the ball. 

[OlDog75]

On 7/6/2022 at 9:49 AM, Voice of Reason said:

Well, welcome to 2022 I guess. There are a lot of clear, factual things these days that people refuse to believe.

🤔

Ain't that the truth!