Andy Dalton to IR

[futurecoach]

Name the quarterbacks for me that put the "team" on their back and carry them to wins please. I am really curious to see this "list" and then I can offer my opinions as I feel the only 2 that can and have done this are Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady. I can make a pretty good argument against most everyone else.

 

Fair enough. I guess I should have said a QB who can bring another dimension to the team, or A QB who can hide other obvious flaws on the team. Andy Dalton and Alex Smith are two guys who need almost everything around them to be solid for them to do well and the team to win games.

 

QB's who I think would make that list are:

 

Brady

Rodgers

Big Ben

Wilson

Newton

Luck

Mahomes

Watson

Honestly I think Mayfield is on the way to being on that list too.

 

Those guys for their teams either bring another dimension to their offenses, or can hide other flaws and don't need everything to be perfect.

 

Think now for Dalton. He has had to have a lot around him be good for him to get wins. His first 5 years in the league he had a good defense and a good line. 2014 he had a top 5 running game. For most of his career he has had talented guys to throw the ball to until 2016. Yet against good teams, and in big games he usually was not able to bring anything else to the team to help get them over the top. Similar to Alex Smith. Alex Smith had all kinds of talent in KC, similar to what Dalton had his first five years. Yet KC never really was looked at as a true super bowl threat, and usually an early out in the playoffs. They go out and now have Mahomes, and that offense now is on a whole new level, even though its the same players Alex Smith was working with and same coaches.

 

Take a look at Houston. Houston has been a team with many different Qb's and have been able to win games and even make the playoffs with different QB's but never truly a threat. They add a difference maker at QB in Watson, and all of a sudden last year they looked great until he got hurt, and then sucked after that again. This year he is back and now they have a shot for home field advantage in the AFC.

 

You see it around the league how QB's who can add other dimensions to the team, and don't need everything around them to be solid like Dalton does to win games. Im not saying Dalton or Alex Smith are horrible or bad Qb's. They are guys who should be starting in the NFL. But my point is they are guys at the same time who might be the worst QB's for a franchise to have. They are good enough, especially with talent around them to be playoff teams. And they aren't bad enough to where its obvious you need a new Qb. It truly leaves you stuck, because they are good enough to where you are afraid to move on in case you get someone worst. But not good enough to where you can achieve the ultimate goal with them.

 

Even in Kansas City's situation. The big thing that finally led to them being willing to draft a new young QB was because Alex Smith was getting older. If Alex Smith was 4 years younger. They probably never draft Mahomes, and keep living in the at best being a playoff team, and never end up going up a level and being this explosive offense they became with a new QB.

[Jack of all Trades]

I think Roethlisberger would be on that list.

 

Maybe, but he has had some pretty good "weapons" around him over the years as well. Would he have pushed the Bengals to playoff wins?

[Jack of all Trades]

I can agree on Brady and Rodgers. To a lesser degree Big Ben. Oliver Luck is close as well as he has done well with little in Indy. Not buying on Mahomes until he proves it over a number of years, see Dak Prescott. The other guys you mentioned to me are solid NFL quarterbacks, but have had weapons around them to have success. Watson is in the same discussion as Mahomes for me, prove it over a number of seasons and then see where things wash out.

 

Agree that Mayfield might be in that category down the road, but lets see how it plays out.

[TheDeuce]

Maybe, but he has had some pretty good "weapons" around him over the years as well. Would he have pushed the Bengals to playoff wins?

 

Dalton has had plenty of weapons around him in his time in Cincinnati.

[Mustang]

Gunslingers seem to be in vogue these days, and Driskel fits that description much more that stoic Andy.

 

I fully agree with the Gu. He will at least add a degree of excitement to what has been a fabricated, robotic offense.

[MJAlltheWay24]

Name the quarterbacks for me that put the "team" on their back and carry them to wins please. I am really curious to see this "list" and then I can offer my opinions as I feel the only 2 that can and have done this are Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady. I can make a pretty good argument against most everyone else.

 

The fact that Drew Brees is continually not named on lists like this is always laughable to me. Nothing against you in particular JOAT, but Brees has been the definition of this since joining the Saints.

[mcpapa]

That cleared things up.

Easy for him to say.

[Jack of all Trades]

The fact that Drew Brees is continually not named on lists like this is always laughable to me. Nothing against you in particular JOAT, but Brees has been the definition of this since joining the Saints.

 

To some degree, but his most successful seasons, like the current one, he has been surrounded with outstanding weapons. I considered him, but feel he is a little like Matt Ryan. Very solid NFL QB's that when given the offensive line and weapons can be very successful.

[futurecoach]

Maybe, but he has had some pretty good "weapons" around him over the years as well. Would he have pushed the Bengals to playoff wins?

 

For me I have been on the record for years. Stating I believe you could have put many QB's on the Bengals between 2011 and 2015 and they would have made the playoffs each time like they did with Dalton. Dalton for those 5 years had a very good defense. He had a very good o line. 2014 a top 5 running game, and a lot of talent to throw to. Most Qb's would have had success with that. However other Qb's probably could have done more with it in the bigger games against good teams, than he did

 

So yes Big Ben definitely would have got playoff wins with them.

[futurecoach]

To some degree, but his most successful seasons, like the current one, he has been surrounded with outstanding weapons. I considered him, but feel he is a little like Matt Ryan. Very solid NFL QB's that when given the offensive line and weapons can be very successful.

 

Your point on Brees is my exact point on Dalton. Dalton had that for most of his first 5 seasons. The Bengals were considered one of the most talented teams in the NFL from 2013 to 2015. Yet Dalton and the Bengals when they played other good teams, especially under the lights they sucked, especially Dalton. Even Dalton's great 2015 year before he got hurt. They lost two of the last 3 games before he got hurt, and they were both in prime time against the Texans and Cardinals. Him getting hurt in 2015 possibly saved him, because we will never know if the results would have been different. If the Bengals still lose the same games to the Steelers and Broncos. People don't look at 2015 Andy in the same light, and instead say even in his best year he couldn't win when it mattered most.

 

With Dalton if you give him a solid team all away around him. Yes the team can have a good year, but probably still never going to take that next step. Much like the Chiefs were with Alex Smith. Dalton needs almost everything around him to be solid for the team to win games and be a playoff team. Then even when you get all that, still probably not doing much once in the playoffs with him, because he is limited as a QB.

 

He is an average NFL starter, who you can win games with when everything around them is solid. Which IMO can be a franchise killer, because it leaves you stuck. Never going to be good enough to win it all with him, but never truly bad enough where you feel like you should chance moving on and getting someone worst. Youre stuck.

[futurecoach]

Well this put an earlier start on what I wanted them to do. I was wanting them to possibly trade Dalton and Green this off season to save money to sure up other places, and get more draft picks. Have Driskell start next season. If he ends up doing well, awesome. If he sucks next year that is fine too, and puts them in great shape to get one of the top QB's in the good QB class the next year.

 

I am intrigued by Driskell though. He fits the mold of a lot of the QB's we see being successful lately. He is a big QB with a big arm, and can move. Doesn't mean he will do well, but attributes wise. He is the type of QB we see having a lot of success in the NFL these days.

[Voice of Reason]

I want to see Driskell run the ball. We need 40 yards a game out of him. Just enough to shake up coverages, create some openings for receivers and sustain a couple drives. If Dalton would have run more against Baltimore, the Bengals would have won that game. I don't know why Dalton refuses to run. He has enough speed to be effective doing it.

 

People are going wacky over Lamar Jackson. His QBR last week was the third worst in the league (26.7), just a hair better than Colt McCoy's. The game against the Bengals, he was 23 out of 32 QB's in QBR. The guy is not lighting it up. In fact, he hasn't been good at all as a passer. BUT, because of his running his team is winning and he is getting praised.

 

Now, I am not expecting Driskell to run like Lamar, but if he can rack up about 40 yards and be a threat that the defense has to factor in, it will help the bad Bengals O-line and bad receivers.

[MJAlltheWay24]

To some degree, but his most successful seasons, like the current one, he has been surrounded with outstanding weapons. I considered him, but feel he is a little like Matt Ryan. Very solid NFL QB's that when given the offensive line and weapons can be very successful.

 

He's carried the Saints throughout his whole career in New Orleans. To disagree with that is laughable to me. Brady's best year, he was surrounded with amazing talent too (e.g. Randy Moss). That doesn't mean Brees hasn't carried them throughout many other games and many other years.

 

You give Brees AJ Green, Marvin Jones, Mohammed Sanu with a decent running game and a steady defense like Dalton had a few years ago, I think you're seeing quite a bit more than 0 playoff wins during that stretch.

 

Putting Brees in line with Matt Ryan instead of with Rodgers and Brady is just flat out wrong, in my opinion.

[futurecoach]

He's carried the Saints throughout his whole career in New Orleans. To disagree with that is laughable to me. Brady's best year, he was surrounded with amazing talent too (e.g. Randy Moss). That doesn't mean Brees hasn't carried them throughout many other games and many other years.

 

You give Brees AJ Green, Marvin Jones, Mohammed Sanu with a decent running game and a steady defense like Dalton had a few years ago, I think you're seeing quite a bit more than 0 playoff wins during that stretch.

 

Putting Brees in line with Matt Ryan instead of with Rodgers and Brady is just flat out wrong, in my opinion.

 

Perfectly said.

[TheDeuce]

He's carried the Saints throughout his whole career in New Orleans. To disagree with that is laughable to me. Brady's best year, he was surrounded with amazing talent too (e.g. Randy Moss). That doesn't mean Brees hasn't carried them throughout many other games and many other years.

 

You give Brees AJ Green, Marvin Jones, Mohammed Sanu with a decent running game and a steady defense like Dalton had a few years ago, I think you're seeing quite a bit more than 0 playoff wins during that stretch.

 

Putting Brees in line with Matt Ryan instead of with Rodgers and Brady is just flat out wrong, in my opinion.

 

Like I said earlier in this thread, Dalton has had PLENTY of weapons and good defenses in his time in Cincinnati.