Open Job: Grant County

[Calico Jack]

Williamstown ever thought about starting up a program? I’d say they’d be the most viable option of any kind of success in the county. Grant being 5A in a town of only 2,000 meaning the vast majority of their kids coming from all over the county (outside of Williamstown) isn’t a recipe for football prosperity more than not.

[GrantNKY]

Williamstown ever thought about starting up a program? I’d say they’d be the most viable option of any kind of success in the county. Grant being 5A in a town of only 2,000 meaning the vast majority of their kids coming from all over the county (outside of Williamstown) isn’t a recipe for football prosperity more than not.

If Williamstown had a football team people would show up to see the band at halftime and leave.

[futurecoach]

Just a thought. I think that the fact that so many of you believe you have to "win some" before you change the culture says more about the problems at Grant than anything else that's been said on here. Lowering the bar doesn't make the process faster or better, just easier. JMHO.

 

What’s the alternative? Just continue to get their brains beat in by their district?

 

King, I didn't make the schedule. When I was there, we were in the District and played Cov. Cath, Highlands, and Dixie.

Siple

 

How can you get any better without support from the administration and the community? I don’t see how that support can be earned by being in competitive year in and year out against every team in your district. Yes it sucks that GC can’t compete but there just isn’t the talent level at the school nor do they have even enough kids playing sports period to support a 5A football program. They are a 5A school with the same number as kids playing sports as a 1A school.

 

Community support comes from winning and making progress. I think Grant County could support a football program, but it starts with winning. IMO getting blown out by your 3 district opponents every year is counter productive.

 

This is true-- and last year's non-district 0-10 season was no good for anyone. It's a double edged sword. I may have misspoke. The first job of the new coach is drumming up interest in the hallways, then the community.

 

I think the way you run a middle school program is very different then the way you run a high school program. I wonder if Coach Dalzell thought he could just employ the same philosophy at the Varsity level that he did at the middle school level and was suprised when it didn't work.

 

Interesting that the school will hire their 4th head coach since 2011 and the previous three had the daunting task of "drumming up community support" in order to be succesfull. Perhaps the community simply isn't interested in being "drummed up." If the community doesn't care about football, that is not something bad, it just is the way it is.They don't have to care if they don't want to. They care about different things and the students might prioritize other things besides football. I don't think a coach will be able to change it.

 

In my opinion the decision to not play in a district hurts the program, the turn out of kids, and the appeal of this job.

 

Why? So getting your butts handed to you 75-0 in the first half to the state champs is better for morale than playing teams who are more on your level? I’m all for playing a tough schedule in 99% of cases, but for GC there is no good that could come from playing Cov Cath, Highlands, and Dixie. It’s a waste of time for GC and the other 3 teams in the district.

 

So getting beat down by Covington Cathlic, Highlands and Dixie (most of the time) every year, and traveling to take another beat down against a number 1 seed in round one of the playoffs, is helpful to the program and gets more kids to come out?? Getting your heads kicked in 4 out of the last 5 weeks of every season can't be fun or any more attractive to potential players and coaches.

 

Again, the question was, how not playing in district has a negative effect on participation. At least not playing a district schedule for a couple years gives you the flexibility to schedule 3 other teams that are much closer to your level. I think playing out of district long term would be a bad thing. But right now they are at ground zero, and this gives them a chance to at least make the process of building more manageable. They won't be playing for a state title anytime soon, so why play 3 unwinnable district games, when you could schedule someone else??

 

Their 8th grade class this year is pretty strong. Mix that with the Sophomore group they had this year and things could get better. They made great strides this year on the field as the season went on.

 

Problem #2 is is people looking at the scoreboard. Forget about the scoreboard and worry about the play on the field and the improvements being made.

 

Interest in the hallways is zero. It was when I was in school there and years later I’m sure it’s still that way. It’s so hard to build a program when kids don’t want to play football nor do they care about the program. If you start winning they will come, but without the players you stand no chance. I know GC isn’t alone in the state, but it sure feels like GC Head Coach is the toughest job to turn around in the state.

 

@GrantNKY I have to agree and disagree with you all on some of these. I agree winning would help get the community support and players back out. I completely disagree on not being in a district though. I don't see that as helping the program at all. People act like even getting blown out in those 3 games would be the reason why people wouldn't play. There would still be 7 other games on the schedule that the team could schedule to give them a better chance at success.

 

I know better than most people what it is truly like being in a losing program. I was a player in a program that was on a 33 game losing streak at Ludlow. We had 3 different head coaches in my 4 years at Ludlow. One year we played a game with only 13 players on the team and had to make a 3 hour bus ride to Raceland, only to find out one of the players forgot his helmet. So we had to play with 12 guys and two of those 12 guys were freshman lol. We were in the toughest district in the state because it was still 4 classes back then. We had 2 of the top 4 teams in the state in 1A and top 5 in NKY in our district in Beechwood and NCC. Then we also had Bellevue who had good teams back then, Dayton and Holy Cross who started getting good with some of the players they started getting from Cincinnati. During that 33 game losing streak we never had one game that we were even within 21 points. So we as a program literally was at the lowest of lows, lower than what Grant County is going through now. So we would have had every reason in the world to opt out of district play to avoid teams like Beechwood, and NCC. We didn't do that though, and I bet you if we did that Ludlow probably wouldn't have had a football program anymore, or at least wouldn't have had one for a few years. Because we truly would have had nothing to play for. Nothing to hold out hope for, nothing really worth putting all that work in to play. So myself and others who did stick it out, probably would have just been done.

 

At the end of the day even if they were to have 3 guarantee beat downs by its 3 district opponents. It still would be better than literally having nothing to play for or hope for. That is the only reason why myself and other players stuck it out. There was always that little hope and would convince yourself of that maybe we can get this done. Not being in a district takes away any hope of really achieving anything or really try to play for anything that a player or coach may have.

 

Right now by not being in a district what reason does a player have to play? What reason does a coach have to want to go there? Football is the most demanding sport, and one of the biggest time commitments out there. So you all want players to put in all this work and extra time to go out and literally play for nothing. You take away even the slightest amount of hope or optimism a kid may have of achieving something. You take away any kind of light a player may want to get to at the end of that tunnel.

 

Its a 10 game schedule. So what you have 3 games currently where yeah its not going to end good right now. However that also means you have 7 other games where you can try to schedule teams to build the program up. 7 other games to build that confidence in the players, 7 other games to get the community excited.

 

Now this is where I agree with you though. My senior year we got our 3rd new coach in 4 years. He did a great job at getting some more players out. He did a good job at trying to get the community excited. However at the end of the day the thing that got the community most excited was winning. He made a schedule that was very favorable to us to give us the best chance to succeed even while still having NCC and Beechwood on the schedule. We ended up losing our first 2 games of the season still to make it 33 straight losses, but they were closer than any other game in the streak. The third game we played Eminence a team more known for 8 on 8 football than 11 man football. We won that game on a hail mary as time expired. That win right there helped get the confidence going in the program. It didn't take dropping out of district. It took one win. The next week we played another lower level team and blew them out by 28 points. Then we played Bellevue who was undefeated, and top 10 in the state at that time. A game that would have meant nothing if we were not in the district. We ended up dominating that game and winning by a few touchdowns.

 

Then we had Beechwood. Who was undefeated and was #1 in the state, and top 3 in NKY. Obviously everyone else in NKY probably knew what the end result was going to be. However at that time in our lockerroom, and the community we all actually believed we could get it done. Ultimately we lost 62 to 14 lol but even though we got blown out. It wasn't like it was going set the program back. They beat us like they were suppose to, then we came back out the next week and won again. We ended up winning one more and made the playoffs. None of that happens if we just dropped out of the district.

 

Not being in a district hurts Grant County more than helps IMO. It hurts with getting players, and hurts IMO in getting a coach there. As mentioned there are already a lot of other obstacles in Grant County that makes it not the most attractive job. Then when you also take them out of district it makes it even less IMO.

 

You have 7 other games outside of district. District games are usually the last 3 games of the year currently. Meaning you have 7 games before those games. You use those 7 other games and do whatever you can to schedule games against teams you all can compete against and hopefully beat. IMO say if the team is 5 and 2, 6 and 1 or 7 and 0 going into those district games. The team, the school, and community would be as excited as can be. Even if the end results comes with 3 district losses putting it on you. I can guarantee you those players going into those games would at least have confidence and truly believe going into it.

 

That right there helps the program. That right there builds the program back up. I know because I been a part of it and seen it happen first hand. We went from a 33 game losing streak, barely enough for a team. To 5 and 5 getting a huge upset to make the playoffs. Then the next year after I graduated the team had a lot more new players that all of a sudden came out after seeing that. That next year Ludlow then went 8 and 2 including having a 14 to 0 game with Beechwood heading to the 4th Quarter before losing 28 to 0.

 

Right now say you all do have some success and go 5 and 5. I don't think that is going to cause the community or more players to want to play. Because guess what the next season, you all are still out of district and nothing to play for. So why should players come out then even if the team wins a few games while not being in a district.

 

Sorry for this long post. However this is something very close to me because I been through someone even worse than what Grant County is going through. I want to see them turn it around, but IMO not playing in a district is only going to make things worse not better.

[Oldercoach]

Futurecoach...."well said". The only thing I can add is that there are very few coaches that can do the community support thing by themselves. They need admin from top to bottom (supts., principals, ads, etc.) to get on board, put some skin in the game, take responsibility for excellence at all levels, and work to make a coach and the program successful. It takes a village and it appears that GC might be a little rudderless somewhere.

[GrantNKY]

@GrantNKY I have to agree and disagree with you all on some of these. I agree winning would help get the community support and players back out. I completely disagree on not being in a district though. I don't see that as helping the program at all. People act like even getting blown out in those 3 games would be the reason why people wouldn't play. There would still be 7 other games on the schedule that the team could schedule to give them a better chance at success.

 

I know better than most people what it is truly like being in a losing program. I was a player in a program that was on a 33 game losing streak at Ludlow. We had 3 different head coaches in my 4 years at Ludlow. One year we played a game with only 13 players on the team and had to make a 3 hour bus ride to Raceland, only to find out one of the players forgot his helmet. So we had to play with 12 guys and two of those 12 guys were freshman lol. We were in the toughest district in the state because it was still 4 classes back then. We had 2 of the top 4 teams in the state in 1A and top 5 in NKY in our district in Beechwood and NCC. Then we also had Bellevue who had good teams back then, Dayton and Holy Cross who started getting good with some of the players they started getting from Cincinnati. During that 33 game losing streak we never had one game that we were even within 21 points. So we as a program literally was at the lowest of lows, lower than what Grant County is going through now. So we would have had every reason in the world to opt out of district play to avoid teams like Beechwood, and NCC. We didn't do that though, and I bet you if we did that Ludlow probably wouldn't have had a football program anymore, or at least wouldn't have had one for a few years. Because we truly would have had nothing to play for. Nothing to hold out hope for, nothing really worth putting all that work in to play. So myself and others who did stick it out, probably would have just been done.

 

At the end of the day even if they were to have 3 guarantee beat downs by its 3 district opponents. It still would be better than literally having nothing to play for or hope for. That is the only reason why myself and other players stuck it out. There was always that little hope and would convince yourself of that maybe we can get this done. Not being in a district takes away any hope of really achieving anything or really try to play for anything that a player or coach may have.

 

Right now by not being in a district what reason does a player have to play? What reason does a coach have to want to go there? Football is the most demanding sport, and one of the biggest time commitments out there. So you all want players to put in all this work and extra time to go out and literally play for nothing. You take away even the slightest amount of hope or optimism a kid may have of achieving something. You take away any kind of light a player may want to get to at the end of that tunnel.

 

Its a 10 game schedule. So what you have 3 games currently where yeah its not going to end good right now. However that also means you have 7 other games where you can try to schedule teams to build the program up. 7 other games to build that confidence in the players, 7 other games to get the community excited.

 

Now this is where I agree with you though. My senior year we got our 3rd new coach in 4 years. He did a great job at getting some more players out. He did a good job at trying to get the community excited. However at the end of the day the thing that got the community most excited was winning. He made a schedule that was very favorable to us to give us the best chance to succeed even while still having NCC and Beechwood on the schedule. We ended up losing our first 2 games of the season still to make it 33 straight losses, but they were closer than any other game in the streak. The third game we played Eminence a team more known for 8 on 8 football than 11 man football. We won that game on a hail mary as time expired. That win right there helped get the confidence going in the program. It didn't take dropping out of district. It took one win. The next week we played another lower level team and blew them out by 28 points. Then we played Bellevue who was undefeated, and top 10 in the state at that time. A game that would have meant nothing if we were not in the district. We ended up dominating that game and winning by a few touchdowns.

 

Then we had Beechwood. Who was undefeated and was #1 in the state, and top 3 in NKY. Obviously everyone else in NKY probably knew what the end result was going to be. However at that time in our lockerroom, and the community we all actually believed we could get it done. Ultimately we lost 62 to 14 lol but even though we got blown out. It wasn't like it was going set the program back. They beat us like they were suppose to, then we came back out the next week and won again. We ended up winning one more and made the playoffs. None of that happens if we just dropped out of the district.

 

Not being in a district hurts Grant County more than helps IMO. It hurts with getting players, and hurts IMO in getting a coach there. As mentioned there are already a lot of other obstacles in Grant County that makes it not the most attractive job. Then when you also take them out of district it makes it even less IMO.

 

You have 7 other games outside of district. District games are usually the last 3 games of the year currently. Meaning you have 7 games before those games. You use those 7 other games and do whatever you can to schedule games against teams you all can compete against and hopefully beat. IMO say if the team is 5 and 2, 6 and 1 or 7 and 0 going into those district games. The team, the school, and community would be as excited as can be. Even if the end results comes with 3 district losses putting it on you. I can guarantee you those players going into those games would at least have confidence and truly believe going into it.

 

That right there helps the program. That right there builds the program back up. I know because I been a part of it and seen it happen first hand. We went from a 33 game losing streak, barely enough for a team. To 5 and 5 getting a huge upset to make the playoffs. Then the next year after I graduated the team had a lot more new players that all of a sudden came out after seeing that. That next year Ludlow then went 8 and 2 including having a 14 to 0 game with Beechwood heading to the 4th Quarter before losing 28 to 0.

 

Right now say you all do have some success and go 5 and 5. I don't think that is going to cause the community or more players to want to play. Because guess what the next season, you all are still out of district and nothing to play for. So why should players come out then even if the team wins a few games while not being in a district.

 

Sorry for this long post. However this is something very close to me because I been through someone even worse than what Grant County is going through. I want to see them turn it around, but IMO not playing in a district is only going to make things worse not better.

Thanks for posting this and yeah I did read all of it. Haha Honestly I really liked the points you made and you probably changed my opinion on the subject a little bit.

[plantmanky]

@futurecoach Great post, lots of solid points, but I want to clear one up. Its not the issue of playing in A district, its playing in the district they were assigned to be in. Players on the fence about playing, see Dixie, Cov Cath, Highlands, they say no thanks, I am not putting in all the work to get beat to death by them and potentially get hurt. That is the reason athletes from other sports don't play, risk of injury.

 

 

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the impact the Marching Band has at Grant. Lots of big strong boys in the band that could make a huge difference, (its always been that way.)

[GrantNKY]

@futurecoach Great post, lots of solid points, but I want to clear one up. Its not the issue of playing in A district, its playing in the district they were assigned to be in. Players on the fence about playing, see Dixie, Cov Cath, Highlands, they say no thanks, I am not putting in all the work to get beat to death by them and potentially get hurt. That is the reason athletes from other sports don't play, risk of injury.

 

 

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the impact the Marching Band has at Grant. Lots of big strong boys in the band that could make a huge difference, (its always been that way.)

Lots of big kids at GC who don’t play football. Just go to Body Works around 6:00 every night and you’ll see a kid about 6’7 320 and is strong as an ox. He graduated in 2014 I believe. Never stepped foot on a football field.

[futurecoach]

@futurecoach Great post, lots of solid points, but I want to clear one up. Its not the issue of playing in A district, its playing in the district they were assigned to be in. Players on the fence about playing, see Dixie, Cov Cath, Highlands, they say no thanks, I am not putting in all the work to get beat to death by them and potentially get hurt. That is the reason athletes from other sports don't play, risk of injury.

 

 

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the impact the Marching Band has at Grant. Lots of big strong boys in the band that could make a huge difference, (its always been that way.)

 

Lots of big kids at GC who don’t play football. Just go to Body Works around 6:00 every night and you’ll see a kid about 6’7 320 and is strong as an ox. He graduated in 2014 I believe. Never stepped foot on a football field.

 

That's a shame. Even with that I can't have much sympathy for that. Since the school I went to had Beechwood and NCC in it every year and still currently Beechwood. It's hard knowing those those would losses usually. But that shouldn't stop it. You can get people back out by winning the other games.

 

I learned from a girl I dated in that area about how much they love band in that area with them and williamstown. Which I can't say much. She has a few state championship rings because of it and I have zero lol.

[PP1]

Anyone in house that wants it?

[barrel]

Anyone in house that wants it?

House is pretty small. I think there are 6 guys on staff now. Five of them employed in the school district. I don’t know if anyone on staff or otherwise have expressed interest in the position.

[HedgeHog8]

@futurecoach Great post, lots of solid points, but I want to clear one up. Its not the issue of playing in A district, its playing in the district they were assigned to be in. Players on the fence about playing, see Dixie, Cov Cath, Highlands, they say no thanks, I am not putting in all the work to get beat to death by them and potentially get hurt. That is the reason athletes from other sports don't play, risk of injury.

 

 

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the impact the Marching Band has at Grant. Lots of big strong boys in the band that could make a huge difference, (its always been that way.)

 

That district is a program killer if you are not "elite". Look to the east at Pendleton County, playing the likes of CovCath, Highlands and Holmes (mixed with plummeting enrollment) made it very hard for the former Head Coach Terry Brown to find success. He's a good coach that led a CovCath defense to a state title this year. My point is, if you are not on the level or anywhere near that level, it can kill or cripple your program despite who you have at the helm. The recipe for rebuilding is sitting out of district until you can compete in a district again and pray that its not the district you just jumped out of.

[ErnestTBass]

Lots of big kids at GC who don’t play football. Just go to Body Works around 6:00 every night and you’ll see a kid about 6’7 320 and is strong as an ox. He graduated in 2014 I believe. Never stepped foot on a football field.

 

Not sure I agree with this at the current time. There are very few big kids walking the halls at GC and even less athletes who do not play already.

[plantmanky]

That district is a program killer if you are not "elite". Look to the east at Pendleton County, playing the likes of CovCath, Highlands and Holmes (mixed with plummeting enrollment) made it very hard for the former Head Coach Terry Brown to find success. He's a good coach that led a CovCath defense to a state title this year. My point is, if you are not on the level or anywhere near that level, it can kill or cripple your program despite who you have at the helm. The recipe for rebuilding is sitting out of district until you can compete in a district again and pray that its not the district you just jumped out of.

 

Many dont understand this.

[plantmanky]

Not sure I agree with this at the current time. There are very few big kids walking the halls at GC and even less athletes who do not play already.

 

That is a valid point as well. These new kids would be green to football and may not actually help the program, other than just being another body. Again, you wont know till they put on the pads and get out on the field.

[ErnestTBass]

From the outside looking in... I believe GC needs to hire a very young coach with an elementary kid who plays. This will enable the coach to see the whole system from top to bottom.

I also believe that if the districts change as many people on here say, GC would play in the proposed district. This would help get a coach.