Has Kentucky started to show that the one and done isn't the way?

[futurecoach]

Duke won multiple titles since Cal has been at UK and even when they won (2015) with 3 one and dones they had another 2 upperclassmen (starting PG and starting C) that started every game and had a big say on their season.

 

If that is the case with Duke in that title not being a one and done title. Then what is your argument here? The 2010 uk team that fell short had veterans like Patterson and others off the bench, but fell short. The 2011 team had Miller, Liggins and Harrelson. 2012 team had Miller and Vargas. 2013 team had a experience transfer pg come in Harrow, Grad school transfer Julius May's, Jarred Polson played a lot as a junior that season too. 2014 season probably could be the only season where it was basically only true one and done team. 2015 team had Poythress and WCS. Then this year Willis and Hawkins. So this year probably is a true one and done season.

 

So if you don't want to consider that Duke title team as a one and done type team. Then you can't really consider most of Calipari teams as one and done either. Since he has had key upperclassman contribute on most of those teams just like the Duke team that won it.

[HammerTime]

I think it's too early to make that judgment on this season.

 

Looking at the record it seems to have worked well.

 

Has everyone forgotten what the program looked like the four years prior to Cal?

 

Here's the record:

 

2010 Final Eight and Overall #1 seed

2011 Final Four as a #4 Seed

2012 National Championship

2013 NIT First Round loser. (Harrow was not the intended PG of that team)

2014 NCAA Runner-Up as a #8 Seed

2015 38-1 and Final Four

2016 Round of 32 loser as a #4 Seed.

 

Compare this to 2006 to 2009:

 

2006 Round of 32 loser as a #8 Seed.

2007 Round of 32 lose as a #8 Seed.

2008 First Round Loser as a #11 Seed.

2009 NIT Second Round Loser

 

I'm as disgusted as the next guy but let's get a real perspective here. These Teams were close to winning it in 2010, 2011, 2014, 2015. They won it in 2012.

 

Duke won it in 2010 but it was not with the "one and dones." That was in 2015. Can KY win it again soon? Surely. But remember the Cats had been 13 years since they went to the Final Four until 2011.

 

Every year the Cats are in the conversation. Only a handful of programs can say that since 2010.

 

I want to win as much as the next guy but to say the strategy doesn't work is wrong IMO.

Well said, everyone take a back off the ledge.

[Voice of Reason]

I'd take cals recruiting everyday over Tubbys and anyone else's for that matter. But I would take Tubbys in game

coaching anytime over Cal's.

 

This I can agree with. In game coaching, Cal is a lot like Bob Huggins IMO. Their best coaching happens between games. In games, they just aren't in that top tier. Overall, and you have to include recruiting when judging college coaches, Cal has been EXTREMELY successful. How many programs have gone to 4 Final Fours in 7 years - ever? I know UCLA, Duke, UK, UL (Denny Crum), Mich. St., UNC, Cincinnati ... anyone else? If that is right, it has happened 7 times in history. I consider that extremely successful.

[HammerTime]

Extremely successful? No. Not close.

 

Wow. Let's see how many dislikes I can give in this thread.

[futurecoach]

I would have to measure their success talent wise. In Pitino's 8 years did he have the most talented players coming in every year? Shoot the 93 team alone had Mashburn and no one outside him considered to be a top player. How many titles do you think Hall, Pitino or Rupp would have had with the top or 2nd rated class come in every year while they were here?

 

Im hoping next years team will gell more like the 2012 team but only time will tell.

 

Sounds like the type of Coach you want is Pitino. Can recruit but also can Coach. With that said out of all the years Pitino has coached he has only 2 titles and 3 finals appearances.

 

Bill self is another Coach who does a good job getting a mixture of talented one and done types and talented experience types. Yet he has 1 title so far. The tournament is just so darn tough to win, and why so many great even hall of fame coaches only have 1 to 2 titles at most.

[Hellbird]

If that is the case with Duke in that title not being a one and done title. Then what is your argument here? The 2010 uk team that fell short had veterans like Patterson and others off the bench, but fell short. The 2011 team had Miller, Liggins and Harrelson. 2012 team had Miller and Vargas. 2013 team had a experience transfer pg come in Harrow, Grad school transfer Julius May's, Jarred Polson played a lot as a junior that season too. 2014 season probably could be the only season where it was basically only true one and done team. 2015 team had Poythress and WCS. Then this year Willis and Hawkins. So this year probably is a true one and done season.

 

So if you don't want to consider that Duke title team as a one and done type team. Then you can't really consider most of Calipari teams as one and done either. Since he has had key upperclassman contribute on most of those teams just like the Duke team that won it.

Everyteam has "veterans" off the bench. Show me any team that only plays freshman.

[Hellbird]

Sounds like the type of Coach you want is Pitino. Can recruit but also can Coach. With that said out of all the years Pitino has coached he has only 2 titles and 3 finals appearances.

 

Bill self is another Coach who does a good job getting a mixture of talented one and done types and talented experience types. Yet he has 1 title so far. The tournament is just so darn tough to win, and why so many great even hall of fame coaches only have 1 to 2 titles at most.

Again, show me any of those coaches that have gotten the #1 or 2 recruiting class every year. You can't yet they have the same amount or more titles as Cal has with less talent.

[Hellbird]

Got to love when you show the Cal apoligist facts to back up your opinion when they have no counter point all they can do is dislike your post lol.

[Voice of Reason]

Everyteam has "veterans" off the bench. Show me any team that only plays freshman.

 

HB ... UK has three seniors getting regular playing time.

[HammerTime]

Sounds like the type of Coach you want is Pitino. Can recruit but also can Coach. With that said out of all the years Pitino has coached he has only 2 titles and 3 finals appearances.

 

Bill self is another Coach who does a good job getting a mixture of talented one and done types and talented experience types. Yet he has 1 title so far. The tournament is just so darn tough to win, and why so many great even hall of fame coaches only have 1 to 2 titles at most.

 

Don't even waste your time.

[HammerTime]

Got to love when you show the Cal apoligist facts to back up your opinion when they have no counter point all they can do is dislike your post lol.

You are so clueless it's beyond trying to reapond to you at this point. I'm not sure why anyone does.

 

#18%

[Hellbird]

You are so clueless it's beyond trying to reapond to you at this point. I'm not sure why anyone does.

 

#18%

Go ahead. I've given you my reasons why I don't think Cal is as good of a coach as you claim he is. I'm just waiting for a single post stating how he is a better coach than anyone else with less talent than UK has had with as many or more titles than Cal

has.

 

Go ahead, don't bury your head in the sand and for once actually make a convincing post.

[HammerTime]

Go ahead. I've given you my reasons why I don't think Cal is as good of a coach as you claim he is. I'm just waiting for a single post stating how he is a better coach than anyone else with less talent than UK has had with as many or more titles than Cal

has.

 

Go ahead, don't bury your head in the sand and for once actually make a convincing post.

Ok good talk. As usual you've been proven wrong by about 6-7 people here. I'm not going to go over it again. Start with post 2 and go from there if you haven't figured it out yet.

 

 

Are you just making things up now? Who said he's a better coach with less talent? What are you talking about? Many of us have been cirital of his in game coaching and X and Os at times.

[Hellbird]

HB ... UK has three seniors getting regular playing time.

Which is why I said everyteam has veterans off the bench. Name me one that doesn't.

 

 

Please, someone prove me wrong. Prove to me that there is a coach out there that hasn't been as succesful with more talent than UK has gotten since 2009. Problem is, there are coaches who have titles with less talent. That has been my entire point but the Cal apologist simply don't want to hear it.

[Hellbird]

Ok good talk. As usual you've been proven wrong by about 6-7 people here. I'm not going to go over it again. Start with post 2 and go from there if you haven't figured it out yet.

 

 

Are you just making things up now? Who said he's a better coach with less talent? What are you talking about? Many of us have been cirital of his in game coaching and X and Os at times.

Again, show me the 6-7 people who have proven me wrong. Quite their posts and I will again show you where they haven't proven Cal is any better at coaching than any of the ones I have named and actually probably have gotten less out of the talent compared to other

coaches in the same time frame.

 

Let me break it down for you and I will just use 2012 on. Do you think going into the season that every team that has won the title had better talent coming in those years?

 

Did UL have better talent coming in in 2013

Did CT have better talent in 2014

Did Duke have better talent in 2015 when UK went undefeated till final 4

Did Villanova have better talent in 2016?

 

thats my point.

 

Talent alone doesn't win championships. Coaching has something to do with it also.