Update on the KDE BOE meeting. Webcast of the meeting available

[All Tell]

That may be true of a majority of the schools in the state but it still seems to me that a huge point of emphasis of the meeting today was percieved recruiting problems.

 

I also noted what I perceived as a strong reluctance from the BOE to do anything that could be viewed as punitive to any student in the state.

[Fletch]

It's like watching two little boys pass a Barbie doll back and forth between them when their gruff military dad walks in the room.

[kissinger]

I know who the board of control members...

Private schools has their own person to elect :confused: Does Bob Stewart, Stan Hardin and Jim Sexton not represent all of Louisville?

Once elected or appointed, they don't represent all of Louisville. They represent all of Kentucky.

[kissinger]

After reading proposal 1, which relates to financial aid, I am more convinced than ever that this stuff needs to be stopped. Take a look at proposal 1 as it relates to MERIT based financial aid. It limits bothe the number of students that can receive merit based aid and limits the amount of merit based aid. That makes no sense. First, why is it the business of the KHSAA to limit merit based aid in any way, shape or form.. merit based aid is based on the objective results of a test. As an example, one form of merit based aid might say that a school will give a scholaship to the to 20 scores on the placement test. Why should that be limited by the KHSAA? Proposal 1 would limit the number of students that could receive merit based financial aid to the greater of 5 students or 5 percent of the student body. It would also limit the amount of merit based aid to 25 percent of the tuition. This is way off base. If the KHSAA and its membership won't put astop to this it is time for the legislature to step in and restore sanity.

Interesting. Maybe Mr. Alum, you should talk to the President of Trinity, who was the very person who proposed the limitations. Frankly, I would prefer the rule say if you receive anything BUT need-based aid, you can't play. Even the perception of "scholarships" being given to non public schools students throws fuel on the fire of the "unlevel" playing field.

[ladiesbballcoach]

That may be true of a majority of the schools in the state but it still seems to me that a huge point of emphasis of the meeting today was percieved recruiting problems.

 

I also noted what I perceived as a strong reluctance from the BOE to do anything that could be viewed as punitive to any student in the state.

AT, I think the 3 of us are agreeing.

 

The meeting today centered on recruiting.

 

But that is NOT the issue that the majority of the state is concerned about. How this meeting transformed into a concern with recruiting when that is NOT the concern of coaches is beyond me.

 

I feel this meeting with the BOE did NOT represent the concerns of the majority of the coaches in this state. There might be singular cases of recruiting by private school as well as public coaches but I do not think that is the concern being addressed around the state.

 

This meeting gave a perception of what the concern is that is not what it really is.

[leatherneck]

AT, I think the 3 of us are agreeing.

 

The meeting today centered on recruiting.

 

But that is NOT the issue that the majority of the state is concerned about. How this meeting transformed into a concern with recruiting when that is NOT the concern of coaches is beyond me.

 

I feel this meeting with the BOE did NOT represent the concerns of the majority of the coaches in this state. There might be singular cases of recruiting by private school as well as public coaches but I do not think that is the concern being addressed around the state.

 

This meeting gave a perception of what the concern is that is not what it really is.

 

 

I agree also, but I think the supporters of the proposals thought that allegations of cheating and the resulting needs for the proposals would be sympathetically received by the BOE members. I really think the recruiting allegations are a red herring. If there is recruiting going on, it is occurring on a much smaller scale than supporters of the proposals are alleging. Putting boundaries in place just to win games doesn't sound near as "sexy" as the need to rein in illegal recruiting activity, so the supporters went with what they thought was their most compelling argument. Unfortunately, seems like most of the BOE thought the proposals would do more to hurt kids and deny the parents the right to choose what they think is best for their kids. And good for them.

[rockmom]

Schools to vote on recruiting proposals

 

...

 

The board heard from several speakers, including Karen Walker, a Lexington attorney who represents parents opposed to the proposals. She sharply criticized the provision that would require most seventh- and eighth-graders to stay in the same school "feeder pattern" to be immediately eligible for sports in high school.

 

"This measure would require a parent to decide when a child is 9 or 10 years old what his academic needs and athletic interests will be for the next seven to eight years," Walker said.

 

Then she asked the board members to imagine having to explain why a son or daughter would have to sit out of competition for changing from, say a public to a private school for ninth grade.

 

"Are any of you prepared to look into a child's eyes and answer the question, 'Why?' The honest answer is … 'Several adults got very mad and irrational because they lost some games.' "

 

Somerset schools superintendent Wilson Sears, who favors the initiative, said:

 

"This proposal is certainly not designed to punish kids. It's designed to put some teeth into the rules … and to be fair to all kids.

 

"We have no quarrel with where parents want to send their children to school. We are concerned with fairness to public-school kids in the sports arena," Sears said.

 

Sears explained that the proposals deal with middle school youngsters because, "That's where the raid on the kids begins…. The recruitment begins in the middle school grades."

 

Private schools can, if they choose, assemble all-star sports teams, Sears said. Some board members asked if the KHSAA's anti-recruiting rule (Bylaw 10) shouldn't take care of such concerns.

 

"In almost everyone's opinion," Sears said, "it is both ambiguous and unenforceable."

 

Leisa Speer, superintendent of Archdiocese of Louisville schools, spoke against the school-territory proposal.

 

"Why," she asked, "would we want to establish an abysmally poor education policy that is likely unconstitutional, that would tell taxpayers that their children will be denied equal athletic opportunities because they decided to attend a non-public or a public middle school?"

 

[leatherneck]

If Sears is really concerned with recruiting, then the KHSAA should double or triple the KHSAA membership dues and hire a full time investigator to look into any alleged recruiting violations and prosecute those proven to have recruited. In other words, have them put the money where their mouths are to handle the problem. Don't take the expedient and unfair route by punishing the kids and parents. Any coach found guilty of recruiting should be banned from coaching in Ky.for two years for the first offense and permanently banned for the second offense. But leave the kids and the schools alone. They weren't doing the recruiting.

[ladiesbballcoach]

If Sears is really concerned with recruiting, then the KHSAA should double or triple the KHSAA membership dues and hire a full time investigator to look into any alleged recruiting violations and prosecute those proven to have recruited. In other words, have them put the money where their mouths are to handle the problem. Don't take the expedient and unfair route by punishing the kids and parents. Any coach found guilty of recruiting should be banned from coaching in Ky.for two years for the first offense and permanently banned for the second offense. But leave the kids and the schools alone. They weren't doing the recruiting.

Actually, I think the main recruiting being done is by the kids and their parents. I don't think it is illegal or even wrong, necessarily. I posed this scenario recently in a PM to a couple and now I pose it to you.

 

Coach A employed by a school but not a basketball coach for them is coaching an AAU basketball team that has players from multiple counties. Two of the players from different counties become friends and the parents/kids talk about how nice it is for them to play as teammates and wouldn't it be nice if they continued that in HS. Is this illegal or even wrong?

 

Difference in this scenario between public/private. Public schools might not be opened for either to transfer into because of not accepting students outside of their community. (Whether they should or not is another argument. I argue they shouldn't because obviously, taxes, local board of educations, they are designed to serve one specific community.) Private schools are accepting and should be accepting students from multiple counties. That is what they are designed to do. Draw students, usually in a certain faith, from multiple counties they draw from. I have NO problem with that. It is a great thing that they do.

[Gunner11]

Actually, I think the main recruiting being done is by the kids and their parents. I don't think it is illegal or even wrong, necessarily. I posed this scenario recently in a PM to a couple and now I pose it to you.

 

Coach A employed by a school but not a basketball coach for them is coaching an AAU basketball team that has players from multiple counties. Two of the players from different counties become friends and the parents/kids talk about how nice it is for them to play as teammates and wouldn't it be nice if they continued that in HS. Is this illegal or even wrong?

 

Difference in this scenario between public/private. Public schools might not be opened for either to transfer into because of not accepting students outside of their community. (Whether they should or not is another argument. I argue they shouldn't because obviously, taxes, local board of educations, they are designed to serve one specific community.) Private schools are accepting and should be accepting students from multiple counties. That is what they are designed to do. Draw students, usually in a certain faith, from multiple counties they draw from. I have NO problem with that. It is a great thing that they do.

 

IMO example A is not illegal as long as the discussion is between the parent and kids and the coach has nothing to do with it. We are told as coaches that if parents or kids who are not currently enrolled in the high school approach us with questions about playing athletics at the high school level that we are to refer them to the school prinicpal that we can not discuss it with them.

[ladiesbballcoach]

IMO example A is not illegal as long as the discussion is between the parent and kids and the coach has nothing to do with it. We are told as coaches that if parents or kids who are not currently enrolled in the high school approach us with questions about playing athletics at the high school level that we are to refer them to the school prinicpal that we can not discuss it with them.

I personally agree. I do think that this is the recruiting going on in KY. It is not necessarily illegal that I know of nor necessarily wrong.

 

I have had this scenario repeated to me several, several times by players that made the move and did not make the move. NO contact from the school about playing but alot of conversation from their fellow players on club soccer/volleyball or AAU basketball teams.

 

So, the meeting yesterday and the tone it took was confusing to me, because I don't think that recruiting by coaches is the problem.

[ladiesbballcoach]

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060412/SPT0302/604120338/1078

 

Interesting note in this story. The voting may not occur until the October meeting. With these 3 proposals possibly on the voting calendar for October, will some school revive Prop 20 in another version for another vote in October?

[Gunner11]

I personally agree. I do think that this is the recruiting going on in KY. It is not necessarily illegal that I know of nor necessarily wrong.

 

I have had this scenario repeated to me several, several times by players that made the move and did not make the move. NO contact from the school about playing but alot of conversation from their fellow players on club soccer/volleyball or AAU basketball teams.

 

So, the meeting yesterday and the tone it took was confusing to me, because I don't think that recruiting by coaches is the problem.

 

I agree, what parents and their children decide is up to them. It becomes recruiting if someone employed by the school attempts to influence them to come to the school.

[leatherneck]

Actually, I think the main recruiting being done is by the kids and their parents. I don't think it is illegal or even wrong, necessarily. I posed this scenario recently in a PM to a couple and now I pose it to you.

 

Coach A employed by a school but not a basketball coach for them is coaching an AAU basketball team that has players from multiple counties. Two of the players from different counties become friends and the parents/kids talk about how nice it is for them to play as teammates and wouldn't it be nice if they continued that in HS. Is this illegal or even wrong?

 

Difference in this scenario between public/private. Public schools might not be opened for either to transfer into because of not accepting students outside of their community. (Whether they should or not is another argument. I argue they shouldn't because obviously, taxes, local board of educations, they are designed to serve one specific community.) Private schools are accepting and should be accepting students from multiple counties. That is what they are designed to do. Draw students, usually in a certain faith, from multiple counties they draw from. I have NO problem with that. It is a great thing that they do.

 

Unfortunately By law 10 is pretty vague and poorly drafted in my opinion. Most of the by law addresses only involvement by the school and representatives of the school. However, the last sentence in Section 3 says the regulation also applies to "students or their parents". One would think it should say "students and their parents". Case study 10-2 does specifically state that the parent of a current player may not solicit a student from another school or his/her parent concerning athletic participation prior to enrollment at the new school. For what its worth, the case studies are just the KHSAA's interpretation of the rule and are not issued in substitution of the rule. My guess is that if a school was found guilty of recruiting as a result of one parent talking to another parent about transferring, without any involvement whatsoever by the school, it would have a hard time, based on the wording of By law 10, holding up in a court of law, although I have not done any research of the applicable court rulings. If they start policing what parents say to one another we've gone way too far in my opinion. Talk about Big Brother mentality. Geez.

[ladiesbballcoach]

Unfortunately By law 10 is pretty vague and poorly drafted in my opinion. Most of the by law addresses only involvement by the school and representatives of the school. However, the last sentence in Section 3 says the regulation also applies to "students or their parents". One would think it should say "students and their parents". Case study 10-2 does specifically state that the parent of a current player may not solicit a student from another school or his/her parent concerning athletic participation prior to enrollment at the new school. For what its worth, the case studies are just the KHSAA's interpretation of the rule and are not issued in substitution of the rule. My guess is that if a school was found guilty of recruiting as a result of one parent talking to another parent about transferring, without any involvement whatsoever by the school, it would have a hard time, based on the wording of By law 10, holding up in a court of law, although I have not done any research of the applicable court rulings. If they start policing what parents say to one another we've gone way too far in my opinion. Talk about Big Brother mentality. Geez.

Thanks for the information and input. I did not know that students/parents are sorta mentioned.

 

Would you agree that the scenario that I painted is the scenario where most of the recruiting in HS is going on?