The Grey Area of "Cheating"

[Ram]

I think anything a kid knows/remembers is fair. But, if he hands you a playbook, that crosses the line and the coach should not take it.

 

We had a disgruntled parent send us a "playbook" of a rival one time. When we realized what it was, we called our rival, put it in an envelope, and sent it back. We did not make a copy of it either.

 

One of the assistants of our rival made an interesting comment though when we sent it back. He said you already know everything we do, it wouldn't have mattered if you had kept it.

I remember that incident. And, like he said, you already knew what they were going to do, heck everyone knows what they are going to do. You just have to stop it.

 

When I heard of that happening, I immediately thought, "they have an actual playbook".

[Ram]

Is it relatively easy to eavesdrop on the other team's headset equipment?

 

I've always thought it would be.

 

What types of security measures can teams take to prevent this?

 

What avenues of recourse are available to aggrieved parties? Reporting it to the KHSAA? or is this something that is just kept taboo for fear of being wrong and/or blackballed from coaching circles?

There are 14 channels that can come programed in all public two way communication devices, so those 14 channels are relatively easy to scan for. Now, most come with a PL code (Private line code), now those PL codes have a wide range of possibilities. If you have a PL set on your channel, it is very hard to listen. Now, the question becomes, how many coaches know what a PL code is, and how many coaches know how or why they should use one?

[Lawnboy13]

What about fields that are "weathered" by someone other than God? :lol2:

 

:popcorn: :lol:

[Lawnboy13]

How much "spying", "stealing signals", "headset equipment eavesdropping/malfunctioning", "video taping", etc. goes on at the high school level?

 

Where does the line between "competitive advantage" and "cheating" begin and end?

 

How do you prevent it?

 

Let me preface this.....I am in NO WAY accusing Highlands of ANY misdeeds, however it was clear that University Christian was having some sort of issue with their headsets when they played the Birds. I saw more than once coaches switching headsets when they had problems getting plays into the game.

 

Highlands does not have to do anything "shady" to beat an opponent.

[blueandgold73]

Let me preface this.....I am in NO WAY accusing Highlands of ANY misdeeds, however it was clear that University Christian was having some sort of issue with their headsets when they played the Birds. I saw more than once coaches switching headsets when they had problems getting plays into the game.

 

Highlands does not have to do anything "shady" to beat an opponent.

 

Yeah, and I don't think it was any coincidence... Let's be honest.... But you're right, I think Highlands would've beat them regardless, but that is definitely pretty suspicious...

[Bert]

I generally would say a team is crossing the line when they use special equipment to get an advantage. For example, if the other team can see my hand signals from across the field and picks up on patterns and figures out plays, not cheating. If someone is in the coaches box with binoculars "studying" hand signals, that crosses the line. Like someone said above, if a kid transfers and from memory he can give you information, that would be OK. If he had a photocopy of the playbook, that cosses the line.

[JokersWild24]

What about fields that are "weathered" by someone other than God? :lol2:

 

The ole' "water the field down to give advantage to the home team's brand of power football and to slow the speed of the other team" play should just be put in some mountain school's playbook.

[JokersWild24]

I generally would say a team is crossing the line when they use special equipment to get an advantage. For example, if the other team can see my hand signals from across the field and picks up on patterns and figures out plays, not cheating. If someone is in the coaches box with binoculars "studying" hand signals, that crosses the line. Like someone said above, if a kid transfers and from memory he can give you information, that would be OK. If he had a photocopy of the playbook, that cosses the line.

 

Is an iPad something that is you consider "special equipment"?

 

I thought it would be something that could be useful for LOTS of different things.

 

What about an iPhone?

 

LOTS and LOTS of Apps on an iPhone

[Jumper_Dad]

How about manure spread on the visiting teams sideline, does that cross the line? Or is that just sportsmanship? I think we won around 60-0 so it didn't really impact the game.

[Lawnboy13]

Yeah, and I don't think it was any coincidence... Let's be honest.... But you're right, I think Highlands would've beat them regardless, but that is definitely pretty suspicious...

 

I didn't see it that way, 1st game, was the equipment tested before it went it to use??? :idunno:

[Bluedad]

Let me preface this.....I am in NO WAY accusing Highlands of ANY misdeeds, however it was clear that University Christian was having some sort of issue with their headsets when they played the Birds. I saw more than once coaches switching headsets when they had problems getting plays into the game.

 

Highlands does not have to do anything "shady" to beat an opponent.

 

Same exact thing happened in last years Highlands/ CCH playoff game. Tons of headset trouble.

Highlands would have won anyway- but it is interesting to hear that other teams have had trouble there.

[Bert]

Is an iPad something that is you consider "special equipment"?

 

I thought it would be something that could be useful for LOTS of different things.

 

What about an iPhone?

 

LOTS and LOTS of Apps on an iPhone

 

I guess I have the same view as card counting in casinos. If all you are doing is using your own memory, nothing being used to assist you, it is not breaking the law, though the Casino can require you to leave, but not breaking the law. So, if an app on an Ipad, Iphone, Droid or whatever is assisting your memory in some way, I am uncomfortable with a team using it.

[Hatz]

The ole' "water the field down to give advantage to the home team's brand of power football and to slow the speed of the other team" play should just be put in some mountain school's playbook.

 

I'm not naming names here but we all know it has happened in the past. In fact, the most glaring one to my experience can't even do it anymore because they no longer have a grass (i.e. bog) field. :thumb:

[Henry521]

Let me preface this.....I am in NO WAY accusing Highlands of ANY misdeeds, however it was clear that University Christian was having some sort of issue with their headsets when they played the Birds. I saw more than once coaches switching headsets when they had problems getting plays into the game.

 

Highlands does not have to do anything "shady" to beat an opponent.

It could be that their headsets just were not working. Really don't think teams have time to worry about other teams headsets or computer wear when they have to be worried about if their own headsets and computer wear are going to be working. As for University Christian, I can understand a malfunction in their equipment. They just traveled 11 hours to a location they have never played. Could it be that something was forgotten? Another factor to consider for the University Christian game is this was the first game and a lot of new players. There was going to be confusion amongst them. Honestly, think of a Highlands team traveling to another state for the first game, scrimmage , of the year and I'm sure there would be mishaps and what not. Most if not all schools use the Huddle system to watch films on opposing teams. Nothing sneaky there. IPads are common on the sidelines these days. Teams just keeping up with the times. Highlands has it, Campbell Co. has it, and a whole host of if not all schools have it. I don't think there is any cheating going on, just everyone is keeping up with the changing times.

[born2reign]

What message do you send to the young men you coach when you resort to these tactics?

 

I remember coaching at Trinity Valley School when we played Oakridge. Oakridge had 4 Division 1 prospects including Ross Apo, who was starting at WR for BYU prior to suffering multiple concussions. We had none at the time, although a sophomore ending up progressing and playing at Rice he wasn't being recruited at that time. Anyway, one of their DB's lost their wrist band with defensive plays on it. One of our WR's snuck the band over to our head coach so we could steal their signals. We knew Oakridge was good. We also knew there was a potential we would see them again in the title game. The coach called over a referee and gave him the band and told him that it belonged to Oakridge and ask the ref to return it. The coach then turned to the WR and said "We earn our wins at TVS. No short cuts."

 

There are lots of lessons to be learned playing football and if you don't have a coach willing to teach them, then you should find the right guy. Some things are bigger than the game, IMO.

 

BTW, we did see Oakridge in the title game. Oakridge lost two games that season, both to TVS. No short cuts!