HOW MANY PITCHES

[hacyco]

How many pitches are safe for a high school pitcher to pitch in a game and would that number change due to cold or hot weather?

[BaseballFan13]

IMO it depends ENTIRELY on the pitcher...Any individual player has his own limits and while that may be 50-75 for one player, the next could easily be able to handle 100+...It depends on how in shape the pitcher's arm is as well as the rest of his body. For example, a former player I know threw 15 innings in one game. I do NOT recommend that for any player, but my point is, the very next day, he came down and practiced with the team.

 

Just go with your instinct. Usually you can tell when a pitcher has hit his limit. Also, teach your players to be honest with you and themselves. Pitchers know when their done!

[15thSportsFan]

I know that Coach Lawson at PIkeville used to limit his pitchers to 60 pitches for the first couple of starts for the season, then gradually go up from there. I think he allows certain ones to go up from that total now. But like BaseballFan said, it's totally dependent on the pitcher. Also factor in weather. If it's really cold and rainy, like so often in KY early, then they shouldn't throw as many.

[stickymitts]

An old adage is 6 times the pitcher's age. Depending on the climate, less pitches may be necessary but rarely more. It's one thing, IMO that people don't get. I've seen 10 year old kids throw 100 pitches in the freezing cold. And that's why parents shouldn't coach.

[STRIKE3]

Pitch Counts and Pitch Selection are essential, especially early in the season. The mild/cold weather, does not allow a pitchers arm to continually remain warm, by limiting blood flow.

 

Suggestions:

March starts: Limit pitch total 55 (3-4 innings) · 1st start

Early April starts: Limit to 60 pitches · 2nd & 3rd start

Mid April start: Limit to 70-75 pitches · 4th/5th start

Late April/May: Limit to 85 pitches

Tournament: Total pitches can increase, never more than 100 and observe mandatory rest requirement.

 

Limit breaking pitches to minimum early in March and early April starts. Utilize more 2 and 4 seam fastballs, with a change-up variation as an off-speed pitch.

 

After each start is over and pitcher has been removed, include light jogging from dugout to foul pole, than 2 sets of sprints (40yds) 2 times, to keep blood flowing to joints and hasten recovery time and minimize arm fatigue/damage.

 

Pitchers should always wear a jacket, or wrap arm in warm towel between innings, while pitching for to keep arm core temperature elevated and ice immediately after pitching is concluded, to minimize and reduce swelling of broken blood vessels in the throwing shoulder.

[bellalumni40]

I'm essentially from the new school, as I just finished playing high school baseball about 4 or 5 years ago, and I believe in many cases we are babying pitchers too much. Even though I dont really think I was supposed to, I could come out and throw 7 innings three games a week and never feel any ill effects from it. I rarely iced my arm, rarely put on a jacket or attempted to make myself any different from my teammates. It's necessary for a pitcher to be up and supporting his teammates between innings, and not sitting around with his arms crossed in a jacket. The best way to condition your arm? Throw pitches. This pitch count stuff doesn't fly with me. I know when I'm tired, and that is time to come out. Do you barely believe in anyone pitching a complete game in high school? In April a kid should be ready to throw some complete games, and you have these guys throwing 10 or fewer pitches an inning, which is not likely to happen unless you have unbelievable control. Don't want a kid throwing breaking pitches? How else is a kid going to develop this pitch if they dont use it. You didnt hear of these guys back 20 or 30 years ago having all the arm problems they do now, and its due to the fact that we have set something scientifically about everyone, and everyone is not the same. Let the kids pitch, when he gets tired take him out. If you work out and get your arm and body in good shape, you can pitch every day if you want. Thats my thoughts on it.

[stickymitts]

I'm essentially from the new school, as I just finished playing high school baseball about 4 or 5 years ago, and I believe in many cases we are babying pitchers too much. Even though I dont really think I was supposed to, I could come out and throw 7 innings three games a week and never feel any ill effects from it. I rarely iced my arm, rarely put on a jacket or attempted to make myself any different from my teammates. It's necessary for a pitcher to be up and supporting his teammates between innings, and not sitting around with his arms crossed in a jacket. The best way to condition your arm? Throw pitches. This pitch count stuff doesn't fly with me. I know when I'm tired, and that is time to come out. Do you barely believe in anyone pitching a complete game in high school? In April a kid should be ready to throw some complete games, and you have these guys throwing 10 or fewer pitches an inning, which is not likely to happen unless you have unbelievable control. Don't want a kid throwing breaking pitches? How else is a kid going to develop this pitch if they dont use it. You didnt hear of these guys back 20 or 30 years ago having all the arm problems they do now, and its due to the fact that we have set something scientifically about everyone, and everyone is not the same. Let the kids pitch, when he gets tired take him out. If you work out and get your arm and body in good shape, you can pitch every day if you want. Thats my thoughts on it.

 

This post actually makes me sick to my stomach so I'll just say this, I would NEVER allow my child to play for you with that philosophy. It's people with that philosophy that get into coaching and ruin kids. BTW, 20 and 30 years ago a curve ball was a rare thing to see.

 

BTW, let me know how your arm feels in about 10 years. :thumb:

[Play 2 Win]

I'm essentially from the new school, as I just finished playing high school baseball about 4 or 5 years ago, and I believe in many cases we are babying pitchers too much. Even though I dont really think I was supposed to, I could come out and throw 7 innings three games a week and never feel any ill effects from it. I rarely iced my arm, rarely put on a jacket or attempted to make myself any different from my teammates. It's necessary for a pitcher to be up and supporting his teammates between innings, and not sitting around with his arms crossed in a jacket. The best way to condition your arm? Throw pitches. This pitch count stuff doesn't fly with me. I know when I'm tired, and that is time to come out. Do you barely believe in anyone pitching a complete game in high school? In April a kid should be ready to throw some complete games, and you have these guys throwing 10 or fewer pitches an inning, which is not likely to happen unless you have unbelievable control. Don't want a kid throwing breaking pitches? How else is a kid going to develop this pitch if they dont use it. You didnt hear of these guys back 20 or 30 years ago having all the arm problems they do now, and its due to the fact that we have set something scientifically about everyone, and everyone is not the same. Let the kids pitch, when he gets tired take him out. If you work out and get your arm and body in good shape, you can pitch every day if you want. Thats my thoughts on it.

 

With all do respect, you don't have a clue.

 

1) Arm problems have been around baseball since baseball. Generally over usage.

2) The problem with pitching based how you feel or think you feel is that it is based on your mentality and not based on the strain you are placing on the ligaments and tendons "inside" your arm.

3) If you think you could throw 21 innings in a week, then I'm here to say you obviously did not throw very hard. Generally a junk baller or knuckle baller can throw more often because they are not putting the arm through as much strain because of the lack of torque.

4) Unfortunately, I've seen rotator cuff's torn through over usage, I've seen guys holding their arm so it wouldn't fall off, from over usage.

5) I've been around baseball a long time and I've seen pitchers throw a lot of pitches and that one time may have not effected them, but over the long haul, they don't last.

6) And speaking of arm problems 30 years ago, Tommy John, ie Tommy John Surgery, pitched 30 years ago.

[STRIKE3]

Let the kids pitch, when he gets tired take him out. If you work out and get your arm and body in good shape, you can pitch every day if you want. That's my thoughts on it.

...Oh My, since your young I will disregard all of your previous post, to youthful exuberance....this last part, if you get your arm in shape and can pitch every day...would only hold true for ONE day and that would be the LAST day you could raise your arm to pitch, due to damage that perhaps could not be repaired.

 

Do you realize every time a player pitches, blood vessels are being torn slightly and thus inflammation/soreness occur.

 

Do you realize recovery must be permitted, to allow the arm "rest" and aid in the healing process after throwing pitches.

 

Do you realize, YOU are probably the only person to have this opinion about lack of proper arm care and overwork. There is an extremely huge difference, between pitching on Monday and than loosening up to play outfield on Tuesday, with slight soreness.

 

Please do more research on what you have stated and please do not volunteer any pitching advice to young players, until you have done so.... :thumb:

[stickymitts]

...Oh My, since your young I will disregard all of your previous post, to youthful exuberance....this last part, if you get your arm in shape and can pitch every day...would only hold true for ONE day and that would be the LAST day you could raise your arm to pitch, due to damage that perhaps could not be repaired.

 

Do you realize every time a player pitches, blood vessels are being torn slightly and thus inflammation/soreness occur.

 

Do you realize recovery must be permitted, to allow the arm "rest" and aid in the healing process after throwing pitches.

 

Do you realize, YOU are probably the only person to have this opinion about lack of proper arm care and overwork. There is an extremely huge difference, between pitching on Monday and than loosening up to play outfield on Tuesday, with slight soreness.

 

Please do more research on what you have stated and please do not volunteer any pitching advice to young players, until you have done so.... :thumb:

 

:lol: :lol:

Told you, Play 2 Win. :lol: :lol:

[STRIKE3]

Here are some links to very articles/studies and informational discussion, on Pitch Counts and the effects to the arm, as a result of the throwing motion....good reading for anyone and for those needing....proper information.

 

American Amateur Baseball Congress

http://www.aabc.us/ksm_xml_art17.asp

 

 

The American Sports Medicine Institute (a leading authority on sports injuries) conducted a study of pitching injuries in youth players, following which they issued the following suggested guidelines for the maximum numbers of pitches per game (based on age)---and recovery times. (A full copy of the report can be purchased from ASMI).

 

SUGGESTED PITCH COUNTS (Per Game --- Maximum 2 games per week)

Age Max. Pitches/Game

8-10 . . . . . . . .52

11-12 . . . . . . .68

13-14 . . . . . . .76

15-16 . . . . . . .91

17-18 . . . . . .106

 

SUGGESTED RECOVERY TIMES (Days of rest following # of pitches thrown in a game)

Age 1 day . . . 2 days . . . 3 days . . .4 days 8-10

# Pitches 21 . . . . . 34 . . . . .43 . . . . . 51

11-12 27 . . . . . 35 . . . . .55 . . . . . 58

 

http://www.asmi.org/

 

Study by the University of Pittsburgh, very good and 110 pages long (click on .pdf file at bottom of page)

 

http://etd.library.pitt.edu/ETD/available/etd-04082005-234016/

[statmanhensley]

Pitch Counts and Pitch Selection are essential, especially early in the season. The mild/cold weather, does not allow a pitchers arm to continually remain warm, by limiting blood flow.

 

Suggestions:

March starts: Limit pitch total 55 (3-4 innings) · 1st start

Early April starts: Limit to 60 pitches · 2nd & 3rd start

Mid April start: Limit to 70-75 pitches · 4th/5th start

Late April/May: Limit to 85 pitches

Tournament: Total pitches can increase, never more than 100 and observe mandatory rest requirement.

 

Limit breaking pitches to minimum early in March and early April starts. Utilize more 2 and 4 seam fastballs, with a change-up variation as an off-speed pitch.

 

After each start is over and pitcher has been removed, include light jogging from dugout to foul pole, than 2 sets of sprints (40yds) 2 times, to keep blood flowing to joints and hasten recovery time and minimize arm fatigue/damage.

 

Pitchers should always wear a jacket, or wrap arm in warm towel between innings, while pitching for to keep arm core temperature elevated and ice immediately after pitching is concluded, to minimize and reduce swelling of broken blood vessels in the throwing shoulder.

 

AMEN to that!!!! The coaching staff at Rockcastle County follows something along those lines and it's done them well for years.

 

 

 

I'm essentially from the new school, as I just finished playing high school baseball about 4 or 5 years ago, and I believe in many cases we are babying pitchers too much. Even though I dont really think I was supposed to, I could come out and throw 7 innings three games a week and never feel any ill effects from it. I rarely iced my arm, rarely put on a jacket or attempted to make myself any different from my teammates. It's necessary for a pitcher to be up and supporting his teammates between innings, and not sitting around with his arms crossed in a jacket. The best way to condition your arm? Throw pitches. This pitch count stuff doesn't fly with me. I know when I'm tired, and that is time to come out. Do you barely believe in anyone pitching a complete game in high school? In April a kid should be ready to throw some complete games, and you have these guys throwing 10 or fewer pitches an inning, which is not likely to happen unless you have unbelievable control. Don't want a kid throwing breaking pitches? How else is a kid going to develop this pitch if they dont use it. You didnt hear of these guys back 20 or 30 years ago having all the arm problems they do now, and its due to the fact that we have set something scientifically about everyone, and everyone is not the same. Let the kids pitch, when he gets tired take him out. If you work out and get your arm and body in good shape, you can pitch every day if you want. Thats my thoughts on it.

 

This is totally bogus. I know that in a pitcher's mind he can throw forever but when his fastball isn't moving like in the first couple innings and his curve or slider doesn't break as much either....THEN IT'S TIME TO TAKE HIS OUT NO MATTER WHAT HE THINKS!!!!

 

I guess this philosophy has gotten Bell County baseball to where it is today.

[bellalumni40]

With all do respect, you don't have a clue.

 

1) Arm problems have been around baseball since baseball. Generally over usage.

2) The problem with pitching based how you feel or think you feel is that it is based on your mentality and not based on the strain you are placing on the ligaments and tendons "inside" your arm.

3) If you think you could throw 21 innings in a week, then I'm here to say you obviously did not throw very hard. Generally a junk baller or knuckle baller can throw more often because they are not putting the arm through as much strain because of the lack of torque.

4) Unfortunately, I've seen rotator cuff's torn through over usage, I've seen guys holding their arm so it wouldn't fall off, from over usage.

5) I've been around baseball a long time and I've seen pitchers throw a lot of pitches and that one time may have not effected them, but over the long haul, they don't last.

6) And speaking of arm problems 30 years ago, Tommy John, ie Tommy John Surgery, pitched 30 years ago.

I know arm problems have been around, but not at the extent they are today.

Sure, there were times my arm was sore, but that was early in the season while my arm was still conditioning.

I didn't throw in the 90's by any means, but I hit around 83 or so through most of a game. Curve in the low 70's with a tight break on it. Looked at to play 3rd base in college and considered to throw some bullpen innings, but didnt like the small school situations.

I know guys who have had arm problems. Most of these guys had poor mechanics, and threw curves and such every other pitch seemingly.

Guy's I pitched every where in every league, year round from the age of 8 to 18. I could have played college baseball if thats what I wanted to do, so I believe I know a little about baseball as well. I know my view isnt the popular view when it comes to this type of thing, but its my view. You let me teach a kid the proper mechanics when he is growing up, and let me get the kid in shape, and I know he can pitch more than you think he can. Now, I will say, if I was a coach I wouldnt do it myself b/c some kids and parents dont want it, and the kids are babied. Trust me, I saw it on my team. I wanted to win ballgames and knew if I was on the mound we could do it and that my arm and body was in the condition to do so. A pitcher knows his body and arm better than anyone else, and it is entirely up to him.

[bellalumni40]

...Oh My, since your young I will disregard all of your previous post, to youthful exuberance....this last part, if you get your arm in shape and can pitch every day...would only hold true for ONE day and that would be the LAST day you could raise your arm to pitch, due to damage that perhaps could not be repaired.

 

Do you realize every time a player pitches, blood vessels are being torn slightly and thus inflammation/soreness occur.

 

Do you realize recovery must be permitted, to allow the arm "rest" and aid in the healing process after throwing pitches.

 

Do you realize, YOU are probably the only person to have this opinion about lack of proper arm care and overwork. There is an extremely huge difference, between pitching on Monday and than loosening up to play outfield on Tuesday, with slight soreness.

 

Please do more research on what you have stated and please do not volunteer any pitching advice to young players, until you have done so.... :thumb:

I'm 23, I'm not THAT young. I will clarify some things I've said. I'm basing some of these thoughts on my senior year of high school. I'm 18 years old at the time and am in very good physical condition having just finished basketball and having thrown baseball all year. Also, I believe a kid needs proper mechanics in order to be able to perform at this level over that amount of time. I had the proper mechanics and had myself in shape, and that makes a difference. I played summer ball for teams where it was required that I ice after a game and so on, and did so, and I can say I felt no better the next day necessarily. I realize there are studies on this, and each individual is different. Maybe I overreacted a tad in my post, but I believe that sometimes the caution with arms is taken to extremes that arent necessary.

[STRIKE3]

I know arm problems have been around, but not at the extent they are today.

Sure, there were times my arm was sore, but that was early in the season while my arm was still conditioning.

I didn't throw in the 90's by any means, but I hit around 83 or so through most of a game. Curve in the low 70's with a tight break on it. Looked at to play 3rd base in college and considered to throw some bullpen innings, but didn't like the small school situations.

I know guys who have had arm problems. Most of these guys had poor mechanics, and threw curves and such every other pitch seemingly.

Guy's I pitched every where in every league, year round from the age of 8 to 18. I could have played college baseball if that's what I wanted to do, so I believe I know a little about baseball as well. I know my view isn't the popular view when it comes to this type of thing, but its my view. You let me teach a kid the proper mechanics when he is growing up, and let me get the kid in shape, and I know he can pitch more than you think he can. Now, I will say, if I was a coach I wouldn't do it myself b/c some kids and parents don't want it, and the kids are babied. Trust me, I saw it on my team. I wanted to win ballgames and knew if I was on the mound we could do it and that my arm and body was in the condition to do so. A pitcher knows his body and arm better than anyone else, and it is entirely up to him.

...You may want to consult with some of those college pitching scouts, professional pitching scouts and experts in the field, before spreading the word of pitching every day....huge difference between "Pitching" and "Throwing" on an every day basis.

 

The mechanics of pitching overhand, is an unnatural motion for the arm and the best mechanics in the world, will not limit the soreness, broken blood vessels and strain from pitching....not even close.

 

Throwing to strengthen an arm is done, via programs, long toss, conditioning and flexibility drills. Pitchers have sore arms, regardless of mechanics but often as a result of bad mechanics.

 

As for the last sentence, the pitcher knows his body and arm....but someone is responsible for that arm, a parent and more importantly...a knowledgeable coach.