I'll give Bellalumni the benefit of the doubt on this one, and say that he has some of the right ideas but just went way too far with them.

 

In a sense, I agree that pitch counts are overrated. I have seen the stats, looked at the charts, etc. but I think that a kid can throw 100+ pitches in a game, as long as it is not on a regular basis.

 

The key to pitch counts is what many people miss - it is not necessarily the game, but what you do to prepare for the game. It is possible to throw 100 pitches and not be all that sore the next 1-2 days if you prepare properly in between starts. By that, I mean icing or resting the arm for that day and the next day. Then, on Day 2, you should long toss to stretch out the arm. While it was always one of my most painful days, in terms of being sore, it helps immensely for Day 3 and so on.

 

Day 3 you should be back to pitching from a mound, very lightly. In no way shape or form should you be throwing anywhere close to 75%...50% is probably more like it. You take this session to work on your offspeed pitches (NOT Breaking balls), location, and mechanics.

 

On Day 4, you do the same as Day 3, except a little more intensely. I'd say close to 75% on Day 4; however, each pitcher must know his / her own limits, and if their arm will be too sore on Day 5 (Gameday) then they should cut back how intense the "mound session" in the bullpen is.

 

Day 5 is game day, and warming up is essential. Personally, I always liked to get a nice sweat going in the bullpen. Then, you know you'll be ready to go out on the mound and hurl.

 

The key is not the start itself, but in between starts, IMO.

:thumb: Good post.

I will say however, my days rest were hardly ever 5 days. It was more like 3, sometimes 2. Rarely did I pitch 2 days in a row, unless one was a relief appearance.

A lot of variables when counting pitches, type of pitcher, weather condition, score of game, number of days rest before next start, number of days rest since last start, age of pitcher,does the pitcher play other positions the day before or 2 days after he pitches, what part of the season early spring - middle of summer.

I agree xtra. There are so many variables that I would never put a specific count on a pitcher. Unless under some special situation like a tournament or an important game coming up etc.

FWIW, the 1st, 2nd and possibly 3rd start of the season should never go over 70 pitches, and should probably be cut off at about 55-60 pitches on the high school level.

 

That is just my opinion, though. There are plenty of starts out there, and there is no reason to rush a young arm, especially early in the season when it's probably pretty cold out as well.

I am a strong proponent of Pitch Counts, especially at the youth and High School levels. I'm also an extremely competitive person and strive to excel at many aspects in Baseball but not at the risk of injuring a players "pitching future".

 

Most pitchers are also everyday players, so they will have to warm-up the next day and play a position, which will result in nearly 40-50 tosses, plus infield, plus tossing between innings, which will bring the total to close 70-80....which number wise, is equivalent to the total when pitching in some games....so now follow my logic.

 

Monday - "Pitcher" throws 90 pitches in 7 inning game

Tuesday - Same "Pitcher" is now a Shortstop, throws 40-50 warm-up tosses, before game and another 30-40 for infield. (total now 160)

Wednesday - No game but practice (should rest, if not warm-ups 200)

Thursday - Same as Tuesday (now 270)

Friday - Time to pitch again per KHSAA, throws another 90 pitches and 7 innings (total now 360)...not much recovery time but it does happen almost everywhere in Kentucky.

 

This is why pitch counts, arm strengthening before and during season, icing, proper stretching is "critical" to overworking a "Pitchers arm". My thinking is immediately after a pitcher has concluded his work in a game, they do the following:

1) Replenish body with fluids (water)

2) Light running/jogging on the side, with arm "iced" to keep blood flowing throughout the body/pitching arm to minimize swelling and stiffness

3) Once home do some light stretching with elastic bans/therapy bands for long counts (10-15 seconds)

4) Replenish body with carbohydrates (food) and electrolytes (drink)

5) Anti-inflammatory under the supervision of parent

6) Good hot shower, preferably one that pulsates

7) Ice again for 20 minutes after shower, remove ice and than get a good nights sleep, "without sleeping on pitching arm"

8) Stretch lightly again that morning and before the upcoming game

 

I also like "pitchers" to do some light tossing, "not long tossing" the next day, from 20-25 feet, on bended knee with full range of motion, hip turn and arm in correct slot, to help stretch out the cuff and begin working the soreness/stiffness out.

I am a strong proponent of Pitch Counts, especially at the youth and High School levels. I'm also an extremely competitive person and strive to excel at many aspects in Baseball but not at the risk of injuring a players "pitching future".

 

Most pitchers are also everyday players, so they will have to warm-up the next day and play a position, which will result in nearly 40-50 tosses, plus infield, plus tossing between innings, which will bring the total to close 70-80....which number wise, is equivalent to the total when pitching in some games....so now follow my logic.

 

Monday - "Pitcher" throws 90 pitches in 7 inning game

Tuesday - Same "Pitcher" is now a Shortstop, throws 40-50 warm-up tosses, before game and another 30-40 for infield. (total now 160)

Wednesday - No game but practice (should rest, if not warm-ups 200)

Thursday - Same as Tuesday (now 270)

Friday - Time to pitch again per KHSAA, throws another 90 pitches and 7 innings (total now 360)...not much recovery time but it does happen almost everywhere in Kentucky.

 

This is why pitch counts, arm strengthening before and during season, icing, proper stretching is "critical" to overworking a "Pitchers arm". My thinking is immediately after a pitcher has concluded his work in a game, they do the following:

1) Replenish body with fluids (water)

2) Light running/jogging on the side, with arm "iced" to keep blood flowing throughout the body/pitching arm to minimize swelling and stiffness

3) Once home do some light stretching with elastic bans/therapy bands for long counts (10-15 seconds)

4) Replenish body with carbohydrates (food) and electrolytes (drink)

5) Anti-inflammatory under the supervision of parent

6) Good hot shower, preferably one that pulsates

7) Ice again for 20 minutes after shower, remove ice and than get a good nights sleep, "without sleeping on pitching arm"

8) Stretch lightly again that morning and before the upcoming game

 

I also like "pitchers" to do some light tossing, "not long tossing" the next day, from 20-25 feet, on bended knee with full range of motion, hip turn and arm in correct slot, to help stretch out the cuff and begin working the soreness/stiffness out.

Good post STRIKE3. You know that I have always respected and valued (and sought) your perspective on proper pitching mechanics and proper arm care.

Good post STRIKE3. You know that I have always respected and valued (and sought) your perspective on proper pitching mechanics and proper arm care.

I agree great post, So many pitchers do play every game at some position. It can add up to a lot of pitches. thanks for the help.

Strike-3 and many others have pointed out several valid points. The bottom line is even if a pitcher is mechanically sound, takes care of his arm and is in good physical shape with great core strength. Pitching is un-natural and causes stress on the body. Maybe, you recover quickly today and maybe quickly all week and maybe quickly for an entire season, but eventually it catches up with you.

 

As George Burns said, "If I had known I was going to live this long, I would have taken better care of myself."

 

I stayed away from this thread, because it initially made me too aggrivated, but I'm glad to see some good stuff being put out there.

 

By the way, when you reference Strike-3, don't forget the dash. He gets a little fiesty. :lol: :lol:

Strike-3 and many others have pointed out several valid points. The bottom line is even if a pitcher is mechanically sound, takes care of his arm and is in good physical shape with great core strength. Pitching is un-natural and causes stress on the body. Maybe, you recover quickly today and maybe quickly all week and maybe quickly for an entire season, but eventually it catches up with you.

 

As George Burns said, "If I had known I was going to live this long, I would have taken better care of myself."

 

I stayed away from this thread, because it initially made me too aggravated, but I'm glad to see some good stuff being put out there.

 

By the way, when you reference Strike-3, don't forget the dash. He gets a little feisty. :lol: :lol:

...that is the "other" Strike-3 and not me....I'm easy to get along with....well, most of the time....

 

There are two of us

 

Strike-3 (him)

Strike3 (me)

The bottom line is even if a pitcher is mechanically sound, takes care of his arm and is in good physical shape with great core strength. Pitching is un-natural and causes stress on the body. Maybe, you recover quickly today and maybe quickly all week and maybe quickly for an entire season, but eventually it catches up with you.

An observation that most parents and players do not realize, that pitching is an un-natural motion of the arm and does cause stress to the shoulder, elbow and muscle group.

 

Combination of conditioning, proper mechanics and maintenance will prolong the ability to pitch, while aiding in the recuperation time as mentioned before.

...that is the "other" Strike-3 and not me....I'm easy to get along with....well, most of the time....

 

There are two of us

 

Strike-3 (him)

Strike3 (me)

 

 

Well thanks for the warning....Geez, that could get confusing. Which was first?

Well thanks for the warning....Geez, that could get confusing. Which was first?

...the chicken or the egg....

 

Just kidding, Strike-3 was here first and I Strike3 joined last year. I believe we both share the same interest in Baseball, as several posters on here do...but blame Strike-3, for all the bad stuff if necessary....

 

Just curious, as why you were aggravated about this thread....regarding some information being offered. I understand but let your opinion be known and state your side, which I do and hope that if doesn't offend, but is understood as information for all to consider....differing sides make for a great debate, which I always enjoy.

...the chicken or the egg....

 

Just kidding, Strike-3 was here first and I Strike3 joined last year. I believe we both share the same interest in Baseball, as several posters on here do...but blame Strike-3, for all the bad stuff if necessary....

 

Just curious, as why you were aggravated about this thread....regarding some information being offered. I understand but let your opinion be known and state your side, which I do and hope that if doesn't offend, but is understood as information for all to consider....differing sides make for a great debate, which I always enjoy.

 

He was aggravated by the same stuff we were aggravated by. :madman:

He was aggravated by the same stuff we were aggravated by. :madman:

Thanks and that is why I don't intend anything to be personal about Pitch Counts, but I have a strong opinion and belief, they are vital to the health and well-being of any pitcher, regardless of age.

On the first page of post, there were some statements made by in general the younger guys, so I stated my thoughts and left for a couple days. Upon my return, I was happy to see several intelligent post by the experienced posters.

 

Nothing against the younger guys. I too remember being fearless and invincible. But I think much differently now.