Bob Schneider's Comments on the Compromise

[SMOKEANDMIRRORS]

as stated above from CJ article:

 

 

 

No freshman.

No JV

No SPORTS.

For 2 YEARS.

 

I only hope that this is ONLY for KHSAA sanctioned sports and club level sports or non-KHSAA sports like hockey will not have to abide by this.

 

2 years does not sound like a lot to adults. Its forever to a child. Any child impacted by this will likely leave sports for the rest of their of their life.

 

And everyone thinks this is OK?

The only people that think 2 years is a good idea to penalize kids are A.D.s and coaches who care only if they keep their piece of the pie

[SMOKEANDMIRRORS]

The KHSAA can not police their own bylaws now as it is. With the new issue at hand, we are going to expect them to look at where every kid went to middle school 3 years, some situations 4 years prior, to determine eligibility??? Amazing. This only creates a bigger mess for them to be a bureauacracy over. Imagine all the possible crazy situations. Sixth grader's parents move during the year. Do they have to apply for a waiver then based on the current transfer by-laws, for play that will not occur possibly 3 or 4 years later. Middle schooler gets expelled from public/private school and enrolls in another public/private school; is he/she no longer eligible anywhere for 9th and 10th grade years? There are a multitude of NKY situations. Kid goes to St. Thomas(feeder school for NCC), but want to send their child to a same-sex private school in grades 9-12(Cov Cath/NDA). Your local middle school is a quarter mile away from your home, but the high school that it feeds does not have football. With this rule, the KHSAA is forcing parents to do the exact opposite of what their by-laws say. They do not allow athletics to be a factor in the transfer process, but we are going to ban you for two years for not choosing as a 6th grader. Completely absurd and if everyone thinks they have trouble policing things now, it will be 10-fold worse if this passes.

:thumb: :thumb:

If they pass this mess they will be having this same meeting every year until the courts throw it out .

[All Play No Work]

The KHSAA can not police their own bylaws now as it is. With the new issue at hand, we are going to expect them to look at where every kid went to middle school 3 years, some situations 4 years prior, to determine eligibility??? Amazing. This only creates a bigger mess for them to be a bureauacracy over. Imagine all the possible crazy situations. Sixth grader's parents move during the year. Do they have to apply for a waiver then based on the current transfer by-laws, for play that will not occur possibly 3 or 4 years later. Middle schooler gets expelled from public/private school and enrolls in another public/private school; is he/she no longer eligible anywhere for 9th and 10th grade years? There are a multitude of NKY situations. Kid goes to St. Thomas(feeder school for NCC), but want to send their child to a same-sex private school in grades 9-12(Cov Cath/NDA). Your local middle school is a quarter mile away from your home, but the high school that it feeds does not have football. With this rule, the KHSAA is forcing parents to do the exact opposite of what their by-laws say. They do not allow athletics to be a factor in the transfer process, but we are going to ban you for two years for not choosing as a 6th grader. Completely absurd and if everyone thinks they have trouble policing things now, it will be 10-fold worse if this passes.

 

All the points you list are valid and hopefully will be taken into consideration when any "rules" are enacted. More "rules" of course mean more policing of the rules and more opportunities for breaking rules. But the middle school factor seems to be one thing that the public schools in favor of Prop 20 have keyed on as being vital to any compromise that will circumvent split championships, so I would guess that part will be pretty well documented.

[lexcard]

But the middle school factor seems to be one thing that the public schools

 

There is only one reason for this 'middle school factor'. Coaches and ADs. They want their pipeline of high caliber talent defined and not subject to change. Coaches and ADs are the ONLY winners in this scenerio. They win and kids who find the need change academic settings due to educational or financial needs between Middle school and HS or even during HS are the absolute losers in this plan.

 

At all levels it is supposed to be student/athelete and the student part should always be first. This plan reverses that definition. Parents will be 'forced' (Wilson Sears term) to commit earlier to their childs POTENTIAL atheletic future and atheletics will become a much more dominent factor in school selection at the middle school level.

 

Those that want to 'force' parents to make a decision earlier have no interest in the development of individual children. Their priorities are about Programs and Championships. There seems to be little regard with the ones that will be shut out, likely for the rest of their lives, from sports participation. Those shut out under this rule will be those who have no voice right now - the average and marginal student/atheletes who will get caught in the 'compromise'. Most parents have no idea what is this really about and their views are not being heard.

[Gunner11]

Is this proposal going to be put to a vote by all the members or does the BOC have the ability to just run with this crappy idea. Seems pretty lame that this little task force of such a small group of people, is going to make the overriding decision.

[All Play No Work]

Is this proposal going to be put to a vote by all the members or does the BOC have the ability to just run with this crappy idea. Seems pretty lame that this little task force of such a small group of people, is going to make the overriding decision.

 

 

I am not an expert on the procedure but I believe the Board of Education must approve any changes. They (BOE) instructed the BOC and the KHSAA to come up with a solution to the Prop 20 voted in by members/Prop 20 not recommended by the BOC issue.

[Tough as Nails]

The city of Bellevue has some Catholic grade schools but no Catholic high school. There was a student in eighth grade in the Catholic school in Bellevue that was allowed to play softball because that school was considered a feeder school. But I would venture to guess that the same school would also be considered a feeder school for NCC. Just because you send your child to a Catholic school all the way through 8th grade does not mean that they cannot attend the public school in your area. As far as other Catholic schools not in your area, I would guess that if this proposal passed that the parents should be pushing to have as many grade schools listed on the high school's list as a feeder school.

 

But does that solve anything? Not really. If a school has 20 feeder schools now and after the compromise they still have 20 feeder schools, what does that change? And any reduction in the number of feeder schools could potentially lead to a lawsuit.

[All Play No Work]

There is only one reason for this 'middle school factor'. Coaches and ADs. They want their pipeline of high caliber talent defined and not subject to change. Coaches and ADs are the ONLY winners in this scenerio. They win and kids who find the need change academic settings due to educational or financial needs between Middle school and HS or even during HS are the absolute losers in this plan.

 

At all levels it is supposed to be student/athelete and the student part should always be first. This plan reverses that definition. Parents will be 'forced' (Wilson Sears term) to commit earlier to their childs POTENTIAL atheletic future and atheletics will become a much more dominent factor in school selection at the middle school level.

 

Those that want to 'force' parents to make a decision earlier have no interest in the development of individual children. Their priorities are about Programs and Championships. There seems to be little regard with the ones that will be shut out, likely for the rest of their lives, from sports participation. Those shut out under this rule will be those who have no voice right now - the average and marginal student/atheletes who will get caught in the 'compromise'. Most parents have no idea what is this really about and their views are not being heard.

 

lexcard,

 

I do not disagree with your assessment of the situation. However, how would you recommend that the parents whose views are not being heard go about changing that?

It seems to me that with the vote to pass Prop 20 the 48 private schools and 30-some public schools in opposition to Prop 20 are kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place. The BOE has ordered everyone to come up with a solution or face the consequences which could I imagine range from forced changes without any discussion to split playoffs.

[All Play No Work]

The city of Bellevue has some Catholic grade schools but no Catholic high school. There was a student in eighth grade in the Catholic school in Bellevue that was allowed to play softball because that school was considered a feeder school. But I would venture to guess that the same school would also be considered a feeder school for NCC. Just because you send your child to a Catholic school all the way through 8th grade does not mean that they cannot attend the public school in your area. As far as other Catholic schools not in your area, I would guess that if this proposal passed that the parents should be pushing to have as many grade schools listed on the high school's list as a feeder school.

 

But does that solve anything? Not really. If a school has 20 feeder schools now and after the compromise they still have 20 feeder schools, what does that change? And any reduction in the number of feeder schools could potentially lead to a lawsuit.

 

What I think you described (a Catholic school student playing for a public high school) would most likely not be allowed under the "new" rules even if that student had every intention of attending the public high school. Also that student may not be eligible to play for the public high school for one or two years upon entering high school depending on what the final details are.

 

Most likely (depending on the final details) that student would have to decide by 6th or 7th grade what school they will attend or they could face some restrictions. Therefore, many object to that concept.

[lexcard]

I do not disagree with your assessment of the situation. However, how would you recommend that the parents whose views are not being heard go about changing that?

 

All Work:

 

 

My comments on the average parent's voices not being heard comes from conversations I had last night with a group of parents who have very active middle school aged children who would be considered possible future high school student/atheletes. They had no specific knowledge of this 'compromise' solution. As I detailed the specifics of the rumored solution they became increasely concerned. I encouraged them to come look at this forum and to contact who ever they knew at schools.

 

As I have stated, I am not sure what the better solution is. But to increase non-participation penalty to a student who switches schools is definitely not the answer. Denying children the opportunity to participate, or increasing the current 'sit-out' rules in sports is simply not an approach I can ever support. This is not the NCAA and these children are not on atheletic scholarships.

 

If organized sports in high school are meant to benefit the development and improve the character of our children then the increased participation penalization is completely counter to that basic goal. All the championships in the world do not make up for children who would be denied the once in a lifetime opportunity to participate in HS sports. I will support split championships or any thing else instead of increased penalization to children who will ultimately get caught in this 'compromise'.

[Gunner11]

All Work:

 

 

My comments on the average parent's voices not being heard comes from conversations I had last night with a group of parents who have very active middle school aged children who would be considered possible future high school student/atheletes. They had no specific knowledge of this 'compromise' solution. As I detailed the specifics of the rumored solution they became increasely concerned. I encouraged them to come look at this forum and to contact who ever they knew at schools.

 

As I have stated, I am not sure what the better solution is. But to increase non-participation penalty to a student who switches schools is definitely not the answer. Denying children the opportunity to participate, or increasing the current 'sit-out' rules in sports is simply not an approach I can ever support. This is not the NCAA and these children are not on atheletic scholarships.

 

If organized sports in high school are meant to benefit the development and improve the character of our children then the increased participation penalization is completely counter to that basic goal. All the championships in the world do not make up for children who would be denied the once in a lifetime opportunity to participate in HS sports. I will support split championships or any thing else instead of increased penalization to children who will ultimately get caught in this 'compromise'.

 

I agree, there has to be a better compromise than this load of crap.

[All Play No Work]

All Work:

 

 

My comments on the average parent's voices not being heard comes from conversations I had last night with a group of parents who have very active middle school aged children who would be considered possible future high school student/atheletes. They had no specific knowledge of this 'compromise' solution. As I detailed the specifics of the rumored solution they became increasely concerned. I encouraged them to come look at this forum and to contact who ever they knew at schools.

 

 

I agree most parents know little about the situation or have been "told" incorrect infomation.

 

However the situation may be past the point where contacting whoever they know at schools does any good. That may have done some good back at Step 1 but this situation is at about Step 7.

 

Here is where it is headed:

 

MEDIA ADVISORY – TUES., JAN. 10, 2006

KHSAA PUBLIC/PRIVATE TASK FORCE UPDATE

The Kentucky High School Athletic Association Public/Private Task Force concluded its meeting Tuesday at the Crowne Plaza/Campbell House in Lexington. The committee discussed various items with Justice James E. Keller serving as facilitator of the meeting.

 

Three proposals will be presented and voted on by Task Force members, followed by a report to the KHSAA Board of Control. Two proposals deal with defining of a feeder pattern for entering grade nine students and the third with financial aid.

 

A status report of the Committee’s work will be presented to the KHSAA Board of Control following voting and upon completion of the final report; information will be posted on the KHSAA website. KHSAA Commissioner Brigid DeVries will present details to the Kentucky Board of Education, scheduled for Feb. 1-2.

 

Upon final completion of the Task Force Committee’s report by Judge Keller, the Association will release and post on the KHSAA website official wording in final report format.

[JC Alumni 76]

Here's an idea: Work harder on a BETTER solution. Requiring a kid to pick his middle school by 6th grade is ridiculous.

 

Why is it ridiculous? If this compromise passes then it will apply to the PUBLIC and PRIVATE schools. Maybe you think its ridiculous cause in the sixth grade its hard to know a kids athletic potential. If its all about the education that kids recieve in a private school is why they go then a true parent should want their child to come up in that system from kindergarden to 12th grade right? The compromise is good and stops all this recruiting allegiations that the private schools have endured. I thought that would make you happy.

[Gunner11]

What is ridiculous is to make a child not be able to participate in high school athletics for half of their high school years because of the middle school he/she went to. Do you honestly think that these recruiting allegations that you claim are so rampant that we need such drastic sweeping change.

[BigStud]

I've come to the conclusion the KHSAA has lost sight on whats best for the student athlete and their future. But instead are more worried about grumpy old men from select public schools who have to win at all costs.