A Friend of mine who is an educator....

[Nets]

Try this TigerShark...

 

http://counts.edweek.org/sreports/qc04/state.cfm?slug=17ky.h23

[tigershark]

OK, now name the source for the great private school test scores.

 

It is difficult to compare the average private schools to the average public schools in Kentucky due to the fact that they don’t require their students to take the same state exams. Choosing to raise this question you should have already know this. Like I stated earlier I believe a good number of the private schools are very comparable to the public schools in the Sate. There are several schools however, that are far stronger academically than any public school except Manual. Just examine the number of National Merit finalist, the percentage of graduates accepted to and enrolling in college, and the number of those students who receive financial assistance due to academic performance.

 

Don't even begin to compare or question the academic tradition of St. X, because it is far stronger than its athletic tradition I promise you that.

[tigershark]

This coming from the same person who said there is more to test scores in education. That is why us dumb public school supporters do not understand the private schools?!

 

If someone takes a shot at a State Senators comments like the response below, using very poor statistics I should have the opportunity to point that out.

 

But yes, you are correct there is more to education than just test scores, you are seeing the results in the success that all the private schools in Kentucky are having.

 

 

 

Originally Posted by Nets

Here is a link the Senator may want to check before he spouts next time...

 

http://www.msubillings.edu/caer/qua...ducation_in.htm

 

Teacher Quality impressive with a #7 ranking....

 

More published later.

[Jesse James]

tigershark, they are at least posting links, I have yet to see anything to back up the claims that the privates have better scores.

[SilverShadow]

tigershark, they are at least posting links, I have yet to see anything to back up the claims that the privates have better scores.

 

That is because none exist!

[tigershark]

Try this TigerShark...

 

http://counts.edweek.org/sreports/qc04/state.cfm?slug=17ky.h23

 

 

Again, did you bother to examine the data that you provided.? Look at the 50-state tables and the data behind the rankings and you will see these results support what I stated earlier that Kentucky is making strides in improving its Educational System, but still ranks near the bottom in all statistical categories. The facts are right in front of you, or will you hold a meeting and vote to remove the 40 or state that rank above Kentucky.

[Stayinline]

Tigershark you seem to be avoiding what is being asked of you. Can you provide info on private school test scores or not, to prove your point?

[tigershark]

tigershark, they are at least posting links, I have yet to see anything to back up the claims that the privates have better scores.

 

Yes they are posting links, both of which destroyed their own argument. I will provide some useful links tomorrow but again the only way to compare the two is by examining the number of National Merit finalist, the percentage of graduates accepted to and enrolling in college, and the number of those students who receive financial assistance due to academic performance. I would also like to examine the average SAT and ACT scores between the two. I will get my hands on that tomorrow.

[Nets]

Again...

 

I'm proving a point that Kentucky does not "rank 50th in just about everything" as your Senator so claims...now you want to change the 'meaning' of what he said to "still ranks near the bottom in all statisical categories"

 

Not buying it...I'm giving links worth merit...show me stats where Kentucky is 50th in at least 5 different categories...not even the whole educational spectrum and I'll be the first to congratulate ane retract my thoughts.

 

I've got a whole lot more links as well.

 

I do remember Kentucky ranked 21st in overall EDUCATION in the United States a couple of years ago according to a media outlet, however, I can't remember or find the document so I can't post that with proof. California was 50th with Louisiana and Mississippi among the worst...all I can remember.

[SilverShadow]

Yes they are posting links, both of which destroyed their own argument. I will provide some useful links tomorrow but again the only way to compare the two is by examining the number of National Merit finalist, the percentage of graduates accepted to and enrolling in college, and the number of those students who receive financial assistance due to academic performance. I would also like to examine the average SAT and ACT scores between the two. I will get my hands on that tomorrow.

 

No, provide information in the same format as you wish to take down the public schools about. Where are the state test scores for private schools in Kentucky vs. the rest of USA. What are the test scores for each private high school in the state of Kentucky. The public schools has it out there, loud and clear, with all the students, Special needs and all being tested. Now, can you put the scores up or not?

[Nets]

Exactly SilverShadow.

 

I think both Private schools and Public schools are great. However, privates don't have to really take into consideration "Special Needs" and "Behavioral Needs" kids like Publics. Also, speaking of socio-economic issues...take a look at some public schools in Kentucky that are making the grade despite big bridges to overcome...take a look at EZEL ELEMENTARY in Morgan County and look at their TEST SCORES according to the 2005 CATS test and look at the non-academic indicators such as free and reduced lunch, etc..and they look to be doing quite well compared to other schools in Kentucky. That is if we are getting into the argument of which is best?? not really sure if we are...as I was intending to provide FACTUAL information that derailed the Senators unthoughtful comments.

[Dino]

No, provide information in the same format as you wish to take down the public schools about. Where are the state test scores for private schools in Kentucky vs. the rest of USA. What are the test scores for each private high school in the state of Kentucky. The public schools has it out there, loud and clear, with all the students, Special needs and all being tested. Now, can you put the scores up or not?

If you know as much about the state of eduction in Kentucky as you profess, then you must know that Kentucky's public schools admister and report test scores because they are compelled to do so by law; and you also must be aware that private schools are not subject to the accountability laws governing publicly funded schools. If you are aware of these facts, why ask Tigershark to produce data that you know not to exist?

 

Data does exist to show that, on average, private schoo; students fare better on college entrance tests than their public school counterparts. Would you accept having those stats posted as support for Tigershark's position, or would you change the focus of your argument? Just wondering before I dig up those statistics myself. No reason to waste time trying to make a point that doesn't count with the judges. :lol:

[Nets]

Comparing apples to oranges really when we talk about some of the issues regarding which is best...public or private. MANY FACTORS play in it.

 

Once again, my overall point for posting was finding FACTUAL DOCUMENTATION that proves that Kentucky does not rank 50th in JUST ABOUT EVERYTHING, that combats the quote of one Louisville Senator.

[SilverShadow]

If you know as much about the state of eduction in Kentucky as you profess, then you must know that Kentucky's public schools admister and report test scores because they are compelled to do so by law; and you also must be aware that private schools are not subject to the accountability laws governing publicly funded schools. If you are aware of these facts, why ask Tigershark to produce data that you know not to exist?

 

Data does exist to show that, on average, private schoo; students fare better on college entrance tests than their public school counterparts. Would you accept having those stats posted as support for Tigershark's position, or would you change the focus of your argument? Just wondering before I dig up those statistics myself. No reason to waste time trying to make a point that doesn't count with the judges. :lol:

 

Sure, why not. While you are at your simple math calculation, try to advance yourself with a little sub data analysis. Make sure to include the percent of a public school population that are special needs and free/reduced lunch vs. private schools. Or are you of the opinion that entire student populations do not need to be measured?

 

When one actually removes those students who fall under those particular sub groups and those scores removed from the testing pool, you will actually find better education results in the public school vs. the private. As noted in a Christian Science Monitor article (A religious publication saying public schools are doing better than private?!), measured like demographic groups of students, public schools are providing better results.

 

And, I am well aware of the testing publication parameters of public education. What I find most interesting is the fear of the private schools to measure themselves publically to similar or same tests.

[Dino]

Comparing apples to oranges really when we talk about some of the issues regarding which is best...public or private. MANY FACTORS play in it.

 

Once again, my overall point for posting was finding FACTUAL DOCUMENTATION that proves that Kentucky does not rank 50th in JUST ABOUT EVERYTHING, that combats the quote of one Louisville Senator.

I agree that the Senator's statement was inaccurate, but Kentucky schools have a way to go to reach the national average in many categories. Kentucky's Dept. of Education also has a long history of cherry picking test results to show that education is improving every year and that our schools are above the national average. That seems to be the game that many states play, and Kentucky seems to be reporting progress a little more honestly than it did pre-KERA.