What needs to happen in both girls & boys basketball to make it a better game.

[northernkysportfan]

The refs need to let them play more, I hate BIG 10 style basketball where if u have your hand on a players back its a foul, when they dont even have the ball! I like to see games with a lot of scoring, and alot of full court game. As far as changes i would like to see the NBA no charge circle be brought into the game, i dont believe you should be able to take a charge if the shooter is 2 feet away from the basket.

[atm10]

Basketball is a contact sport whether you want to believe it or not. There's blocking out, picks, screens, etc. that all require contact. Alot of times when the refs call it tight, people complain and say "let them play". Then when they let them play, people say they are letting the game get out of control. They are in a no win situation. They call it the best they can. I would suggest that some of the complainers put on the stripes and see how well they do. I'm sure most wouldn't do any better, probably worse. Maybe the coaches should teach their players not to be so "dirty". If they did this, it would clean-up the game and make it more enjoyable for everyone. Don't put it all on the officials, the coaches also play a role in this. Players only play the way they are taught.

 

Agreed :thumb: It still amazes me that people think it is the ref's fault when kids get hurt. I have seen numerous officials call fouls in all situations listed above...i.e. push, shove, diving on a pile and guess what the kids still got hurt. How is the official to blame? And regardless of what people think, whether the game is called tight or not, things are going to happen.

Blocks and charges have been called since basketball began. However, even though officials have been calling it all these years players still try to draw charges and there are collisions. Is that the ref's fault? They call it yet it still happens. Point being, whether it is called or not physical play happens. As Madman said, players play the way the are taught.

[hawgball]

Parents can't enjoy a game if they are holding their breath and hoping their child doesn't end up in the hospital with an injury. Basketball should not be this physical. It is not supposed to be a contact sport. Some coaches want to teach the game of basketball, but they also have to teach their players to be physical, because if they don't they will get run over by teams that don't want to play basketball, but want to play what looks like football.

I saw a takedown at a game once that would have been illegal in football, no call!.

I would like to see the refs take control of the game, and if they do it early in the game, and often the players will realize they need to play clean and the rest of the game should be enjoyable as a result.

As for the arguement that it prepares them for college play, well college ball shouldn't be as physical as it is, either. So clean it up now and they will play better ball at the college level.

 

 

This is a great thread and many good points have been made. As someone who has coached and refereed on the high school level, I will offer my opinion for what it's worth.

 

As for the first above mentioned statement that basketball is not supposed to be a contact sport, that could not be farther from the truth. As several have already responded, there are key fundamentals in the game of basketball that require contact (pick, post up, block out, etc. etc.). These ARE huge parts of the game and I think if we look at that comment we can all agree basketball IS a contact sport.

 

The second highlighted statement is a very big part of basketball and where many younger referees or less experienced referees struggle a little bit. I would call this game management. There are plenty of referees across the state that can call a basketball game, but probably half as many that can actually manage a basketball game. The difference is that managing makes the referee evaluate the game and teams as a whole and call the game according to what is best for that game. There should be a flow to a game and the way a referee calls a game effects how the game flows. This is a concept most fans don't understand b/c fans feel contact means foul which could not be farther from the truth.

 

On a tangent, living in a basketball state it amazes me how ignorant many fans are of the actual rules of the game. I think every coach should make their parents take a basketball rules test every season so they could actually learn what basic rules are. I don't have kids but I love taking in games and the fans almost make it unbearable to sit in the stands and enjoy a game.

 

Back to the point. If referees do control the game early, it is easier to let them play later. Unfortunately we see this in reverse form most of the time, which leads me back to the point of poor game management. Officiating is not easy and until you have actually tried it, you really have no voice.

 

Basketball is great as it is and will continue to change as kids get more athletic, develop different skill sets, etc. If the parents would let the kids play and enjoy the experience, then it might be even better. After all, isn't it about the kids in the end.

[madman]

This is a great thread and many good points have been made. As someone who has coached and refereed on the high school level, I will offer my opinion for what it's worth.

 

As for the first above mentioned statement that basketball is not supposed to be a contact sport, that could not be farther from the truth. As several have already responded, there are key fundamentals in the game of basketball that require contact (pick, post up, block out, etc. etc.). These ARE huge parts of the game and I think if we look at that comment we can all agree basketball IS a contact sport.

 

The second highlighted statement is a very big part of basketball and where many younger referees or less experienced referees struggle a little bit. I would call this game management. There are plenty of referees across the state that can call a basketball game, but probably half as many that can actually manage a basketball game. The difference is that managing makes the referee evaluate the game and teams as a whole and call the game according to what is best for that game. There should be a flow to a game and the way a referee calls a game effects how the game flows. This is a concept most fans don't understand b/c fans feel contact means foul which could not be farther from the truth.

 

On a tangent, living in a basketball state it amazes me how ignorant many fans are of the actual rules of the game. I think every coach should make their parents take a basketball rules test every season so they could actually learn what basic rules are. I don't have kids but I love taking in games and the fans almost make it unbearable to sit in the stands and enjoy a game.

 

Back to the point. If referees do control the game early, it is easier to let them play later. Unfortunately we see this in reverse form most of the time, which leads me back to the point of poor game management. Officiating is not easy and until you have actually tried it, you really have no voice.

 

Basketball is great as it is and will continue to change as kids get more athletic, develop different skill sets, etc. If the parents would let the kids play and enjoy the experience, then it might be even better. After all, isn't it about the kids in the end.

 

Great response. Way to go.:banana::banana:

[imo]

Let me rephrase....basketball is not meant to be a contact sport. I know that it can't help but be when there are ten players running up and down a court. Any contact in basketball can be called a foul, whether it is a push while blocking out, a reach in foul trying to steal the ball, a pick or a screen where a player uses their body to push or just runs into the opposing player. Any contact is considered "illegal", and can be called a foul. Yes, I too hate it when refs call every little touch or hand check, but I don't think that is what LadiesBBallCoach was referring to when she started this thread. I think she was referring to the more blatant fouls that are not the result of accidental contact on the floor. I, for one, thought she was talking about the intentional pushing holding and shoving that goes on in some games. I must have misunderstood. By all means ...let those kids go out and slug each other....let 'em play!

[U Reach I Teach]

Let me rephrase....basketball is not meant to be a contact sport. I know that it can't help but be when there are ten players running up and down a court. Any contact in basketball can be called a foul, whether it is a push while blocking out, a reach in foul trying to steal the ball, a pick or a screen where a player uses their body to push or just runs into the opposing player. Any contact is considered "illegal", and can be called a foul. Yes, I too hate it when refs call every little touch or hand check, but I don't think that is what LadiesBBallCoach was referring to when she started this thread. I think she was referring to the more blatant fouls that are not the result of accidental contact on the floor. I, for one, thought she was talking about the intentional pushing holding and shoving that goes on in some games. I must have misunderstood. By all means ...let those kids go out and slug each other....let 'em play!

 

:laugh:

[ladiesbballcoach]

:laugh:

 

I am in tune with my feminine side.:lol:

[Pcladycatdad]

I believe that the game is called basketball not basketbrawl to many times I have seen fouls that were simply payback for a foul not called, I like hard nosed defense but it must be called if it gets out of hand. I have seen teeth knocked out and intention elbows to the head if a player feels they are being covered to close, players do not seem to know how to move or free themselves from good defense they think that if they have a position on the floor that no one else can be within 5 ft of them. Coaches need to do a better job of teaching them how to move on offense and not play concrete feet offense.

Great games to watch are 2 teams that move on both ends of the floor without being dirty or foul alot. The good refs will control a game without taking control of the game.

[imo]

Sorry ladiesbballcoach!!!! I am "gender impaired" on here. Gald to know you are in tune with your feminine side, though.

[madman]

Let me rephrase....basketball is not meant to be a contact sport. I know that it can't help but be when there are ten players running up and down a court. Any contact in basketball can be called a foul, whether it is a push while blocking out, a reach in foul trying to steal the ball, a pick or a screen where a player uses their body to push or just runs into the opposing player. Any contact is considered "illegal", and can be called a foul. Yes, I too hate it when refs call every little touch or hand check, but I don't think that is what LadiesBBallCoach was referring to when she started this thread. I think she was referring to the more blatant fouls that are not the result of accidental contact on the floor. I, for one, thought she was talking about the intentional pushing holding and shoving that goes on in some games. I must have misunderstood. By all means ...let those kids go out and slug each other....let 'em play!

 

Wrong when you say, "any contact is considered illegal". Setting a good screen, blocking out (you have to have contact to block out), diving for loose balls, etc. are all legal and if the player is playing the game the right way there will be contact. There are no fouls when this is done correctly even though there is contact. I believe that anyone who has ever played the game knows that their is contact and that's part of the game. Going to excessive contact is when there is a foul. And what one person judges to be excessive another person may not. Sure there is the blatant stuff that's easy to call but the other stuff is judgement. Some banging and battling is permitted, it's just part of the game.

[crazy8s]

This is a great topic and one that everyone seems to have an opinion on.

 

The biggest thing that I have seen as both a parent and a coach is that a foul on one end is not a foul on the other end. Drives me crazy- it is understandable though becuase as the ref's rotate up and down the floor they change positions and each ref sees it differently.

 

Body fouls, pushing from behind & holding are rampant - you cannot hold someone and I see it almost every game where the other team has a hold of the jersery -usually of the better player for the other team. There is no defense there but these kids are "taught" how to do it and they do it well and the majority of the time they do not get caught. Very rarely is that called by the offiicals and I don't understand why- especially when it is done right in fromt of them.

 

I have heard numerous times by refs that it is not a foul by unless the other player "gets an advantage" - they will call an offensive player fighting for position with their body a charge but the defender is shoving like crazy from behind and it is a no call.

 

Officiating is very inconsistent, especially with girls bball. Why girls don't get as good as officials as the boys do. I know that there is someone that assigns that but it would be nice to have the better officials for the varsity girls- there are some good ones out there but when they are paired up with the bad ones it makes them look bad too. Officiating is a thankless job but a poorly officiated game can make a difference especially when a team thrives in that type of environment.

 

This year I have seen so many poorly officiated games, more than I have seen in over the last ten years. You have to call the fouls early to set the tone of the game- I think that some officials don't want to call them because it makes the game longer.

 

It would just be nice if there was some consistency on both ends- the girls deserve it!

[ladiesbballcoach]

Wrong when you say, "any contact is considered illegal". Setting a good screen, blocking out (you have to have contact to block out), diving for loose balls, etc. are all legal and if the player is playing the game the right way there will be contact. There are no fouls when this is done correctly even though there is contact. I believe that anyone who has ever played the game knows that their is contact and that's part of the game. Going to excessive contact is when there is a foul. And what one person judges to be excessive another person may not. Sure there is the blatant stuff that's easy to call but the other stuff is judgement. Some banging and battling is permitted, it's just part of the game.

 

Actually blocking out is a foul if you displace the person. (That means you push them backwards even 6 inches and it is a foul) 4 or 5 years ago, the coaches were told that this was going to be a point of emphasis and that officials were going to call it. I think we all said we were going to keep teaching it as we had till they called it.

 

I don't think they have been calling it.

[ladiesbballcoach]

This is a great topic and one that everyone seems to have an opinion on.

 

The biggest thing that I have seen as both a parent and a coach is that a foul on one end is not a foul on the other end. Drives me crazy- it is understandable though becuase as the ref's rotate up and down the floor they change positions and each ref sees it differently.

 

Body fouls, pushing from behind & holding are rampant - you cannot hold someone and I see it almost every game where the other team has a hold of the jersery -usually of the better player for the other team. There is no defense there but these kids are "taught" how to do it and they do it well and the majority of the time they do not get caught. Very rarely is that called by the offiicals and I don't understand why- especially when it is done right in fromt of them.

 

I have heard numerous times by refs that it is not a foul by unless the other player "gets an advantage" - they will call an offensive player fighting for position with their body a charge but the defender is shoving like crazy from behind and it is a no call.

 

Officiating is very inconsistent, especially with girls bball. Why girls don't get as good as officials as the boys do. I know that there is someone that assigns that but it would be nice to have the better officials for the varsity girls- there are some good ones out there but when they are paired up with the bad ones it makes them look bad too. Officiating is a thankless job but a poorly officiated game can make a difference especially when a team thrives in that type of environment.

 

This year I have seen so many poorly officiated games, more than I have seen in over the last ten years. You have to call the fouls early to set the tone of the game- I think that some officials don't want to call them because it makes the game longer.

 

It would just be nice if there was some consistency on both ends- the girls deserve it!

 

Couple of things to address here.... The BBA which assigns officials for the 10th and 11th requires their officials to work both boys and girls games. So, the officiating is probably as equal as you are going to get it.

 

Except, some officials seem to have a gender bias in that they assume that girls couldn't make that block, or steal or offensive play and call it with that assumption.

 

Absolutely, it is being taught to grab and hold the jersey. And anyone that says it is not, doesn't know what they are talking about.

 

Why it is not being called is the what I posted in the first thread. Cause you end up with a game with 100 FT's and everyone fouling out. So, they don't call it. They called it and we had a season full of this and that play would stop.

[madman]

Actually blocking out is a foul if you displace the person. (That means you push them backwards even 6 inches and it is a foul) 4 or 5 years ago, the coaches were told that this was going to be a point of emphasis and that officials were going to call it. I think we all said we were going to keep teaching it as we had till they called it.

 

I don't think they have been calling it.

 

I wasn't talking about displacing the person, I said that contact will occur if blocking out is done correctly. The rule book talks about contact. 4.27.1 - The mere fact that contact occurs does not constitute a foul. When 10 players are moving rapidly in a limited area, some contact is certain to occur. 4.27.2 - Contact which occurs unintentionally in an effort by an opponent to reach a loose ball, or contact which may result when opponents are in equally favorable positions to perform normal defensive or offensive movements, should not be considered illegal, even though the contact may be severe.My point is, there is contact in basketball and some is legal even though it may be severe.

[creole]

Please draw a semi-circle under the basket, and quit calling charges when the defender is underneath the rim. Also, if the offensive player releases the ball before the contact, the basket should count.