What needs to happen in both girls & boys basketball to make it a better game.

[Lunatic1]

Actually blocking out is a foul if you displace the person. (That means you push them backwards even 6 inches and it is a foul) 4 or 5 years ago, the coaches were told that this was going to be a point of emphasis and that officials were going to call it. I think we all said we were going to keep teaching it as we had till they called it.

 

I don't think they have been calling it.

 

 

I have seen this called 2 times this year and instead of calling it on the defender or the offense they call a double foul for pushing.

 

Offense was posting up and trying to seal and the defense was pushing them out or trying to push their way around the player.

 

Kind of eliminates that aspect of the game. It really was not even rough and both girls looked equally surprised by the call.

[ladiesbballcoach]

I have seen this called 2 times this year and instead of calling it on the defender or the offense they call a double foul for pushing.

 

Offense was posting up and trying to seal and the defense was pushing them out or trying to push their way around the player.

 

Kind of eliminates that aspect of the game. It really was not even rough and both girls looked equally surprised by the call.

 

Shocked that it was called probably.

 

You could hit someone hard enough in the lane to get charges pressed on you while touching someone on the perimeter will get a whistle blown.

[crazy8s]

I agree that the officials don't want to have that many free throws shot in a game which is why they don't call it. Seems to me what is what they are getting paid for.....

 

I understand that you cannot call everything but the "touchy" fouls get called - when a whole lot more is going on in the exact same game. When these kids who have formed these bad fouling habits get an official who call it, they don't know what to do. So some of the blame needs to fall on to the coaches who are allowing them to play that way. Players also will push the limit to see what they can get away with.

 

They don't have the bball skills but they are going to beat the heck out of those who do- cannot win with skill so I am going to win with mugging, pushing, shoving, and hacking. There is a big difference between playing tough defense that might be phsyical than playing dirty.

[CCHS_Dad]

Wrong when you say, "any contact is considered illegal". Setting a good screen, blocking out (you have to have contact to block out), diving for loose balls, etc. are all legal and if the player is playing the game the right way there will be contact. There are no fouls when this is done correctly even though there is contact. I believe that anyone who has ever played the game knows that their is contact and that's part of the game. Going to excessive contact is when there is a foul. And what one person judges to be excessive another person may not. Sure there is the blatant stuff that's easy to call but the other stuff is judgement. Some banging and battling is permitted, it's just part of the game.

 

Rule 4 Section 27 Incidental Contact

Article 1. The mere fact that contact occurs does not constitute a foul. When 10 players are moving rapidly in a limited area, some contact is certain to occur.

Article 2. Contact which occurs unintentionally in an effort by an opponent to reach a loose ball, or contact which may result when opponents are in equally favorable positions to perform normal defensive or offensive movements, should not be considered illegal, even though the contact may be severe.

Article 3. Similarly, contact which does not hinder the opponent from participating in normal defensive or offensive movements should be considered incidental.

 

With players that are stronger and faster and in split-second decisions there will not be things called. I do agree with the contact inside the lane getting outrageous at times.

 

I have officiated one of the 99 free throw games (55-44) that took 2:15 to play and they are no fun too.

[Mr. Athletics]

Physical play is here to stay whether you like it or not. The young ladies had better get in the weight room in the off season. College ball is even more physical. The strong survive. Officials don't want to blow the whistle any more than they have too. They want to get their pay check and get out of there. That's just the way it is.

[madman]

Physical play is here to stay whether you like it or not. The young ladies had better get in the weight room in the off season. College ball is even more physical. The strong survive. Officials don't want to blow the whistle any more than they have too. They want to get their pay check and get out of there. That's just the way it is.

 

I agree with you that physical play is here to stay and that the athletes better hit the weight rooms. I totally disagree with your comment about the officials. I know alot of officials and they call the game the way they see it. Whether it takes an hour and a half or two and a half. People complain when they call it tight and they complain when they let them play. I don't think they have an alarm clock in their pocket to alert them that the game needs to end. Honestly, they are not getting paid that much to take the abuse and criticism that they take. Coaches and fans can be brutal. Whether or not you want to believe it, most officials take their job seriously and work hard to give it their best. As long as there are human officials, there will always be questions about calls. Maybe we should get robots to call the games. That way, when people complain, they will be complaining to something that doesn't care.

[Mr. Athletics]

I agree with you that physical play is here to stay and that the athletes better hit the weight rooms. I totally disagree with your comment about the officials. I know alot of officials and they call the game the way they see it. Whether it takes an hour and a half or two and a half. People complain when they call it tight and they complain when they let them play. I don't think they have an alarm clock in their pocket to alert them that the game needs to end. Honestly, they are not getting paid that much to take the abuse and criticism that they take. Coaches and fans can be brutal. Whether or not you want to believe it, most officials take their job seriously and work hard to give it their best. As long as there are human officials, there will always be questions about calls. Maybe we should get robots to call the games. That way, when people complain, they will be complaining to something that doesn't care.

 

My point is that they do not call and are not going to call something every time someone get bumped or hand checked if it doesn't have an impact on the game. Most officials that I have seen work are hesitate to make any calls late in the game that would be controversial. They want to let the kids decide the game at crunch time and that is the way it should be. Officials are well paid at the HS level which they should be because of the abuse they take from some idiot fans.

[crazy8s]

I agree that the game has gotten more physical and that the girls need to get stronger so that those bumps don't affect them.

 

My biggest complaint with physical play is that on one end they call it and the other end they don't within the same game- you get the beat up on one end and barely touch them on the other end- saw it happen all night long in a game last night.

 

Either you call it tight or you don't - there is just a lot of inconsistency within the games which makes it hard to understand what is a foul or not a foul.

[ladiesbballcoach]

Rule 4 Section 27 Incidental Contact

Article 1. The mere fact that contact occurs does not constitute a foul. When 10 players are moving rapidly in a limited area, some contact is certain to occur.

Article 2. Contact which occurs unintentionally in an effort by an opponent to reach a loose ball, or contact which may result when opponents are in equally favorable positions to perform normal defensive or offensive movements, should not be considered illegal, even though the contact may be severe.

Article 3. Similarly, contact which does not hinder the opponent from participating in normal defensive or offensive movements should be considered incidental.

 

With players that are stronger and faster and in split-second decisions there will not be things called. I do agree with the contact inside the lane getting outrageous at times.

 

I have officiated one of the 99 free throw games (55-44) that took 2:15 to play and they are no fun too.

 

Would you agree that if there were more games like you officiated that the coaches would quit teaching the "intentional" contact that makes the game so physical.

 

I can tell you that it is taught when a cutter comes across the lane to "jam" them with a forearm and make them change the direction of their cut. No cutter goes through the lane without contact.

 

I can tell you that it is taught to be very physical with the lower body on the post.

[CCHS_Dad]

Would you agree that if there were more games like you officiated that the coaches would quit teaching the "intentional" contact that makes the game so physical.

 

I can tell you that it is taught when a cutter comes across the lane to "jam" them with a forearm and make them change the direction of their cut. No cutter goes through the lane without contact.

 

I can tell you that it is taught to be very physical with the lower body on the post.

 

 

One would hope that all would be disgusted with the lack of flow and try to play a better game.

 

To be honest I can't see the involved parties agreeing to call an entire year or two of 2hour games.

[welovethisgame]

One would hope that all would be disgusted with the lack of flow and try to play a better game.

 

To be honest I can't see the involved parties agreeing to call an entire year or two of 2hour games.

 

 

Not to mention no one would watch.

[crazy8s]

The key word that I pick up on with regards to the rules is - "unintentional contact."

 

There is a difference of what that means vs. what is occurring in the game today. Players are "intentionally" initiating physical contact which in turn hinders the movement of the other player. You are kidding yourself if you think that most of this stuff is unintentional- kids are taught to do it and there are entire teams that play this way and it is an advantage for them. When they finally come up against better officiating- they struggle.

 

Some of the best officiating I have seen is when the ref sees what is going on and they tell them to stop. "get out of the lane, get your hands off, stop holding, etc." If they don't stop then they they call it. I have heard that officials are not suppose to talk to the players that way anymore which is a shame if that is true becaue I think it the kids learn from that.

 

The last point I want to make that it all depends on what side of the play you are on- if you are a physical defender- you don't see anything wrong with being physical and it is ok. However, If you are the person on the offensive end of it, getting held, grabbed, pushed, shoved, etc. it takes on a whole different feel. Yes players should be tougher, and yes the game is more physical in college- but we are not talking about college here we are talking high school, even middle school games that have become a football game at times without pads!

[imo]

Well said crazy8s. Coaches need to teach kids the game of basketball. If a team can't win based on their basketball skills, they need to play another sport. In some cases that sport would be football. If you are going to play football, take it to the football field and don't bring it to the basketball court.

[ladiesbballcoach]

Well said crazy8s. Coaches need to teach kids the game of basketball. If a team can't win based on their basketball skills, they need to play another sport. In some cases that sport would be football. If you are going to play football, take it to the football field and don't bring it to the basketball court.

 

Bolded is easy sentence to type but hard to put into practice.

 

Let's say you are in a district where you teach kids the game of basketball, but the other 3 coaches in your district are teaching a physical style of play and your teams continued to lose in district games. Do you keep your style and continue to lose and jeopardize your job? Or do you adapt to the physical style of play?

[crazy8s]

A great question and one that I can seen happening today in some districts.

 

I don't have the answer for that but if the skills are good enough one would hope that eventaully that would win out over physical but it most cases it probably won't. If you want to win your district you may have to adapt- not hat I agree with it but it may be necessary.