Illegal Alien debate...

[True blue (and gold)]

My daughter went to Sacred Heart Academy in Louisville. It was founded in the 19th century when Nuns were brought over from Germany to teach the daughters of German immigrants IN GERMAN. How many of those families do you think have failed to assimilate? It is an old story. The first generation doesn't assimilate so well. The second generation is bilingual. The third generation is American in language and culture.

 

Now, now...don't try to confuse people with facts and examples.

[94 Camel]

Now, now...don't try to confuse people with facts and examples.

 

Do we maintain the resources in this country to allow 5 million immigrants a year with our natural population growth?

[ladiesbballcoach]

This will not be a popular statement but,

 

I have yet to be convinced that the immigrants are this huge problem.

 

I do see some things that need to be addressed:

 

Paying under the table by businesses to avoid taxes and paying minimum wage.

Making sure that immigrants are paying their fair share of taxes, etc, if they are working in this country.

They should not be allowed to enjoy in the full benefits of living in this country till going through the process of being a US citizen.

 

 

But that they are some sort of rodent-type problem that we need to exterminate through violent means, don't see it.

 

http://blog.beliefnet.com/godspolitics/2007/11/a-new-fugitive-slave-act-by-ji.html

 

The best example is the law recently passed in Oklahoma which makes it a " felony for U.S. citizens to knowingly provide shelter, transportation, or employment to illegal immigrants." If a person comes to the door of a church-run homeless shelter, saying he is illegal and needs a place to sleep, it is a felony to offer him a bed. And churches in Oklahoma across the board have spoken against this new law.

[ladiesbballcoach]

Also from the article and a reminder of this country's mindset with slavery.

 

An Oklahoma attorney wrote in the Edmond Sun (OK) that the new law was a reminder of 1850 Fugitive Slave Act. William F. O'Brien said,

 

The Fugitive Slave Act of 1850 made it a crime for a citizen to harbor a runaway slave or to offer any assistance to slaves who had run away from their masters. … Many Northern clergymen had been offering assistance to runaway slaves through the underground railroad, and continued to do so after the law's enactment. … An analogy can be drawn between the Fugitive Slave Act and a recent enactment of the Oklahoma Legislature in the form of House Bill 1804. This law makes it a crime to harbor or transport illegal aliens in this state. That law serves to criminalize the work done by a variety of clergymen and women throughout the state of Oklahoma who minister to the needs, both spiritual and temporal, of undocumented workers and their families.

 

 

It's an appropriate analogy. Remember, the Fugitive Slave Act was federal law, runaway slaves in the North were illegal. But the church then, as now, answers to a higher law.

[True blue (and gold)]

This will not be a popular statement but,

 

I have yet to be convinced that the immigrants are this huge problem.

 

I do see some things that need to be addressed:

 

Paying under the table by businesses to avoid taxes and paying minimum wage.

Making sure that immigrants are paying their fair share of taxes, etc, if they are working in this country.

They should not be allowed to enjoy in the full benefits of living in this country till going through the process of being a US citizen.

 

 

But that they are some sort of rodent-type problem that we need to exterminate through violent means, don't see it.

 

http://blog.beliefnet.com/godspolitics/2007/11/a-new-fugitive-slave-act-by-ji.html

 

The best example is the law recently passed in Oklahoma which makes it a " felony for U.S. citizens to knowingly provide shelter, transportation, or employment to illegal immigrants." If a person comes to the door of a church-run homeless shelter, saying he is illegal and needs a place to sleep, it is a felony to offer him a bed. And churches in Oklahoma across the board have spoken against this new law.

 

LBBC, we share common ground with your statement and beliefs on this topic.

[True blue (and gold)]

Do we maintain the resources in this country to allow 5 million immigrants a year with our natural population growth?

 

What does that have to do with my post? If you want to ask it of me, fine, but don't link it to a post that has nothing to do with it.

[94 Camel]

What does that have to do with my post? If you want to ask it of me, fine, but don't link it to a post that has nothing to do with it.

 

Your comment was linked to a post on German migration. I am simply saying that I believe the situation has changed since then. Yes, I have asked you that question. And since it is ok, what is your answer?

[Hatz]

That's why so many immigrants refuse to learn English and fly the Mexican flag on US soil. If you think all immigrants to this country are looking for assimilation into our society, then you need to wake up and quick drinking the CNN Kool-Aid. Of the 11 million or so illegals here, if 25% wanted to become citizens rather than create another Latino state, I would be extremely surprised.

 

What's the difference between them and say Irish Americans who fly the flag of Ireland? Or those whose houses I pass that still fly Confederate flags? I hope these are not criteria for deciding if we are a good "assimilating" American.

[Hatz]

Your comment was linked to a post on German migration. I am simply saying that I believe the situation has changed since then. Yes, I have asked you that question. And since it is ok, what is your answer?

 

But what data is there to declare that the situation has changed since earlier immigration movements? His post showed that three generations change things. We have not had 3 generations here yet so how can we say for sure it is different?

[ladiesbballcoach]

What's the difference between them and say Irish Americans who fly the flag of Ireland? Or those whose houses I pass that still fly Confederate flags? I hope these are not criteria for deciding if we are a good "assimilating" American.

 

Great point.

[94 Camel]

But what data is there to declare that the situation has changed since earlier immigration movements? His post showed that three generations change things. We have not had 3 generations here yet so how can we say for sure it is different?

 

The number of generations that it will take to change loyalty from the old country to ours or the number of generations it will take immigrants to culturally difuse does not concern me. What does concern me is that our country will soon run into the same problems that the rest of the world is having if we continue to allow an overflow of immigration. Our population will grow to the point of having a shortage of resources. I do not blame illegal immigrants for trying to get here. I blame our government for not making the cost too high through the punishment applied.

[True blue (and gold)]

Your comment was linked to a post on German migration. I am simply saying that I believe the situation has changed since then. Yes, I have asked you that question. And since it is ok, what is your answer?

 

I am not sure what the limit is. I do know that the willingness of immigrants to fill jobs that legal Americans are not willing to do helps out our economy.

[HHSDad]

The number of generations that it will take to change loyalty from the old country to ours or the number of generations it will take immigrants to culturally difuse does not concern me. What does concern me is that our country will soon run into the same problems that the rest of the world is having if we continue to allow an overflow of immigration. Our population will grow to the point of having a shortage of resources. I do not blame illegal immigrants for trying to get here. I blame our government for not making the cost too high through the punishment applied.

My great grandfather refused to allow his children to speak anything but English in his adopted country. He immigrated from Germany, legally.

[94 Camel]

I am not sure what the limit is. I do know that the willingness of immigrants to fill jobs that legal Americans are not willing to do helps out our economy.

 

At the rate illegals are crossing the border, it won't be long before there will be a shortage of those jobs as well. Soon the wage for those jobs will reduce, and poverty for these illegals will be bad on this side of the border as well. There will be a shortage of jobs, a shortage of housing, a shortage of food, and NO shortage of crime if this continues unchecked. Legal short term work visas are the only way these jobs should be filled.

[Royal Uncle]

Also from the article and a reminder of this country's mindset with slavery.

 

An Oklahoma attorney wrote in the Edmond Sun (OK) that the new law was a reminder of 1850 Fugitive Slave Act. William F. O'Brien said,

 

The Fugitive Slave Act of 1850 made it a crime for a citizen to harbor a runaway slave or to offer any assistance to slaves who had run away from their masters. … Many Northern clergymen had been offering assistance to runaway slaves through the underground railroad, and continued to do so after the law's enactment. … An analogy can be drawn between the Fugitive Slave Act and a recent enactment of the Oklahoma Legislature in the form of House Bill 1804. This law makes it a crime to harbor or transport illegal aliens in this state. That law serves to criminalize the work done by a variety of clergymen and women throughout the state of Oklahoma who minister to the needs, both spiritual and temporal, of undocumented workers and their families.

 

 

It's an appropriate analogy. Remember, the Fugitive Slave Act was federal law, runaway slaves in the North were illegal. But the church then, as now, answers to a higher law.

 

You can't seriously be comparing illegal immigration to slavery. The slaves were brought here by force and treated like crap. That's a major understatement and a sad time in our history. The illegals come here in force and demand everything be change for them. As for your comment in another post that you haven't seen much impact of illegal immigration, then you need to travel more. Go to any city in the Southwest, Rocky Mountain region, or any large city, and you will find the fruits of illegal immigration. While it may not be a problem in LEX, L'VILLE, or CINCY yet, ask someone from Houston, Phoenix, or even Denver about their immigrant situation, and you will get a different picture of what the real wolrd is like.