Prop 2 rebuked by legislative committee

[All Tell]

So when a legislative committee gets one right we aren't allowed to congratulate them if we have disagreed with them in the past?

 

"Sears said Catholic schools 'absolutely' lobbied the committee and he was 'perplexed' by its vote and by its refusal to allow him or other public school advocates to speak before the committee voted."

Did he really expect them not to lobby the legislature? My question to him would be if there was such overwealming support for this thing why did the public schools not lobby more?

 

Prop 2 may not be dead but is is my understanding from reading the articles that since it has been ruled "deficient" it can't be enacted without changes. Am I wrong?

[Hearsay]

So when a legislative committee gets one right we aren't allowed to congratulate them if we have disagreed with them in the past?

 

 

Did he really expect them not to lobby the legislature? My question to him would be if there was such overwealming support for this thing why did the public schools not lobby more?

 

Prop 2 may not be dead but is is my understanding from reading the articles that since it has been ruled "deficient" it can't be enacted without changes. Am I wrong?

 

The implication on here is that the committee "got it right" because they are representing a "fair cross-section of the state," or that it was well-vetted because "it was 4 Democrats and 4 Republicans," or that they "speak for the majority rather than the few." That has been the implication.

 

C'mon, now. The committee made this decision because Damron, Kerr, Tapp, and Roeding are hard-core supporters of private schools, and have been for a long time.

 

Yes, I expected the privates to lobby the legislature. Did you expect that Wilson would not try to portray it as favortism?

[rockmom]

For the record, I only posted the commitee members' names. I didn't post an opinion.

 

I will now.

 

I am glad that this was the decision. HOWEVER, I also am not blind to the fact that whatever is next forwarded may be even less palatable to the Private school side. I also am hopeful that somehow, some sort of acceptable compromise can be arrived at by both the Public side and the Private side.

 

I also still think that adding a proposal such as Prop 2 does nothing to address the actual problem that is apparently out there, and that's the lack of enforcement of the rules already in place.

 

To me, adding rules to current "unenforcable" rules (Sears words, not mine), is insane! It's like sweeping dirt under the rug and wondering why you still have dust in the house!

 

If the rules are uneforcable, determine why; change them; enforce them.

 

Why have unenforcable rules in place to begin with?

 

Yes, I e-mailed all the committee members listed. I will do so again, and again, and again...however long it takes. I received e-mails from each and every one of them with within a couple of days, so I'm not at all surprised by the vote.

[westsider]

Prop 2 was a crock from the beginning ...

[leatherneck]

The whole genesis for Proposal 2 was based on the fact that some small and "down" programs are from time to time forced to play 7th and 8th graders in varsity games. Once on the varsity squads, they would then be spotlighted and become the subject of alleged recruiting by the more powerful high school programs. The high schools that played 7th and 8th graders on their varsity teams were then upset that they had "invested" so much time and coaching in those players, just to see them leave to go elsewhere and they felt it was wrong. They argued that it was so unfair to those high schools (of course they failed to recall the benefits the high school received from the 7th and 8th graders improving their varsity squads and they obviously help the varsity squads or else as 7th and 8th graders they would not have made the varsity squad). Something had to be done to stop this injustice, they cried.

 

In my opinion, their complaints are groundless. Rather than impose such a draconian rule that applies to all 7th and 8th graders (even those that did not play up on their high schools frosh, jv or varsity squads), the bigger schools in that situation need to ask themselves how they've allowed their programs to become so poor that they even need 7th and 8th graders to begin with. Sure, every now and then there will be a Jaime Walz that is just so good that she could crack the starting line up as a 7th and 8th grader at the best of programs. But players like Jaime come along so infrequently that surely you don't impose a rule that impacts tens of thousands of kids just to handle her situation. I would be tantamount to using a nuclear bomb approach to take out one bad guy. Just dumb.

 

The smaller schools using 7th and 8th graders I have a little more sympathy for. If some programs at smaller schools didn't use 7th and 8th graders, they might not be able to field a team and that would be a shame. However, in the balancing test of life, in my opinion the possible negative effect of losing a player that played varsity sports as a 7th or 8th grader is a much better result than the likely effect of Proposal 2 on all kids in this state and the rights of parents to be able to freely choose the best high school for their kids.

 

If some restriction absolutely needed to be adopted, I would only apply it to those 7th and 8th grade kids that played varsity sports for the smaller high schools. Under no circumstances would I have it apply to all kids, regardless of whether they participated in varsity sports or not as a 7th or 8th grader. And I would not have it apply to 7th and 8th grade kids that played up at bigger high schools as those schools should have strong enough programs that 7th and 8th graders should not be needed. If they do, shame on them.

[theguru]

Prop 2 was a crock from the beginning ...

 

My thoughts exactly and I am thankful more objective minds are prevailing.

[Jesse James]

Prop 2 was a crock...........but look for a total seperation vote again coming up.

[ChipT01]

You know what amazes me about this whole thing is that…no one is going out recruiting anyone.

 

My kids have been involved in catholic education for the past 18 years. I have 2 in high school and 2 in grade school. All of my kids are involved in athletics. All of their friends are involved in athletics and the majority of them attend catholic schools.

 

I have met many parents over the years and not one couple has been approached by a coach, athletic director or alumnus from any catholic school in the area……yes even those student whom have gone on to be standouts.

 

The fact of the matter is that, people are not going to spend thousands of dollars to send there kids to a private school just to play a sport. Do people honestly believe that those of us who send our kids to catholic institutions care more about PATs and RBIs than we do about SATs, ACTs and the rosary?

 

Additionally, there are no sports scholarships or stipends to entice anyone to one school over the other. There are; however, academic scholarships and incentives. There is also tuition assistance for those who cannot afford to attend a catholic school.

 

Furthermore, many private schools, particularly the catholic schools, require dress codes, community service activities, additional educational obligations, participation in religious services and myriad other responsibilities to complete their education. Athletes are not exempt and do not receive special privileges. What parent or child would choose such an environment if their goal is sports oriented?

 

Here’s what it comes down to…the private schools have finally realized that sports are a good thing and that they add to a child’s educational and personal development. So, they have allocated time, effort and money into developing programs that have become successful. Better coaches, better facilities, weight programs, motivated kids and involved parents.

 

Unfortunately, some “adults”, who hold positions of power, don’t like loosing or are to lazy to improve their programs and have chosen their own wants and needs over the wants and needs of the children they are supposed represent and educate.

 

Prop 2 is a bad idea, bad policy and a bad precedent that was promulgated by, misconceptions, petty jealousies and flat out fallacious arguments and statements. Those who have perpetrated these beliefs have done so for there own personal gain and to the detriment of the many students who will be unfairly penalized by such a ridiculous concept.

 

Why don’t we just enforce the current rules as they stand and let the kids settle the dispute on the fields, in the pools and in the gyms? I bet we will find that the playing field is much more level than is being portrayed by some.

[clipper]

The above is the BEST post I can recall ever reading on BGP.

[Hearsay]

You know what amazes me about this whole thing is that…no one is going out recruiting anyone.

 

My kids have been involved in catholic education for the past 18 years. I have 2 in high school and 2 in grade school. All of my kids are involved in athletics. All of their friends are involved in athletics and the majority of them attend catholic schools.

 

I have met many parents over the years and not one couple has been approached by a coach, athletic director or alumnus from any catholic school in the area……yes even those student whom have gone on to be standouts.

 

The fact of the matter is that, people are not going to spend thousands of dollars to send there kids to a private school just to play a sport. Do people honestly believe that those of us who send our kids to catholic institutions care more about PATs and RBIs than we do about SATs, ACTs and the rosary?

 

Additionally, there are no sports scholarships or stipends to entice anyone to one school over the other. There are; however, academic scholarships and incentives. There is also tuition assistance for those who cannot afford to attend a catholic school.

 

Furthermore, many private schools, particularly the catholic schools, require dress codes, community service activities, additional educational obligations, participation in religious services and myriad other responsibilities to complete their education. Athletes are not exempt and do not receive special privileges. What parent or child would choose such an environment if their goal is sports oriented?

 

Here’s what it comes down to…the private schools have finally realized that sports are a good thing and that they add to a child’s educational and personal development. So, they have allocated time, effort and money into developing programs that have become successful. Better coaches, better facilities, weight programs, motivated kids and involved parents.

 

Unfortunately, some “adults”, who hold positions of power, don’t like loosing or are to lazy to improve their programs and have chosen their own wants and needs over the wants and needs of the children they are supposed represent and educate.

 

Prop 2 is a bad idea, bad policy and a bad precedent that was promulgated by, misconceptions, petty jealousies and flat out fallacious arguments and statements. Those who have perpetrated these beliefs have done so for there own personal gain and to the detriment of the many students who will be unfairly penalized by such a ridiculous concept.

 

Why don’t we just enforce the current rules as they stand and let the kids settle the dispute on the fields, in the pools and in the gyms? I bet we will find that the playing field is much more level than is being portrayed by some.

 

Welcome, ChipT01. Be sure to check out the New Member Forum and Rules page.

[FANOFTHE11th]

 

I have met many parents over the years and not one couple has been approached by a coach, athletic director or alumnus from any catholic school in the area……yes even those student whom have gone on to be standouts.

 

 

 

Additionally, there are no sports scholarships or stipends to entice anyone to one school over the other. There are; however, academic scholarships and incentives. There is also tuition assistance for those who cannot afford to attend a catholic school.

 

Let me first state that I think proposal 2 is a bad idea. Also I am against a split of the publics and privates.

 

With regard to the first bolded paragraph above, I know that this has happened with non-catholic impact athletes in the past.

 

In reference to the second bolded paragraph, I know that non-catholic impact athletes have been told they could get tuition assistance. Some of the instances I am aware of are where the non-catholic impact athlete had to travel one way 30 plus miles to the Catholic High School. Call it tuition assistance if you like, but IMO for the non-Catholic impact athlete this is nothing more than a scholarship. The non-catholic impact athlete is certainly not traveling 30 miles one way to the Catholic high school because he or she is Catholic. The ability to give tuition assistance to the non-Catholic athlete is a huge advantage for the Catholic High Schools.

 

I do believe that a Catholic family should be afforded the opportunity to send their child to a Catholic high school, even if there is significant distance to the nearest Catholic school from where they reside, should that be their choice.

 

It is the non-Catholic impact athlete that gets tuition assistance, travels significant distance, or both that is a problem.

 

All that being said, Proposal 2 is not the answer.

 

What I think any school should do, publics in particular, is put in place the very best programs possible at the middle school and high school levels to develop the talent within their defined boundaries. By doing this and cultivating a positive perception about your athletic programs, the talent will stay at home instead of be tempted to travel to a private high school that could possibly be several counties away. In many public schools there is no communcation between the high school and middle school programs. This should be encouraged and facilitated by the Superintendents in school districts across the state. Show me a school that is consistently competitive and I'll bet they have their middle school and high school program on the same page.

[leatherneck]

Prop 2 was a crock...........but look for a total seperation vote again coming up.

 

It will be dead on arrival to the State Board each time it happens. A complete waste of time. If the publics think that the situation is unfair, their time would be more productive in trying to start a new association not affiliated with the state.

[Trinity alum]

The whole genesis for Proposal 2 was based on the fact that some small and "down" programs are from time to time forced to play 7th and 8th graders in varsity games. Once on the varsity squads, they would then be spotlighted and become the subject of alleged recruiting by the more powerful high school programs. The high schools that played 7th and 8th graders on their varsity teams were then upset that they had "invested" so much time and coaching in those players, just to see them leave to go elsewhere and they felt it was wrong. They argued that it was so unfair to those high schools (of course they failed to recall the benefits the high school received from the 7th and 8th graders improving their varsity squads and they obviously help the varsity squads or else as 7th and 8th graders they would not have made the varsity squad). Something had to be done to stop this injustice, they cried.

 

If this is true, there is a solution. Make the transfer rules apply to any student that plays high school sport, at any grade, at any level. I can understand the frustration of a coach that sees a player transfer after the eighth grade. If the kids choose to play high school sports while in middle school, they should expect the high school rules to apply to them. I would also favor applying the rules to kids that play on a high school team at any level, freshman, JV or varsity.

[Bluegrasscard]

An editorial from Somerset:

 

http://www.somerset-kentucky.com/localsports/local_story_228084925.html?keyword=topstory

 

Some of the quotes:

 

But even that weak, ‘private school biased’ proposal was shot down by a Kentucky legislative subcommittee that was spearheaded by two ‘private school pom pom carrying’ state senators.

 

...it is a bipartisan issue based on what school colors our state senators are wearing underneath their custom tailored suits and starched white shirts.

 

In my opinion, they are saying that private schools are better than public schools and they have enough power to keep it that way forever.

[rockmom]

That editoral, in effect, unveils the proposal for what those who support it REALLY want.

 

The proposal was to prevent the transfer of students from school system to school system, not necessarily private to public or vice versa.

 

I thought this wasn't about "public vs. private".

 

 

:rolleyes: