Prop 2 rebuked by legislative committee

[Hearsay]

WKYT article:

http://www.wkyt.com/sports/headlines/9154811.html

 

From article:

 

Roeding sent a letter to all Ky School Board members about four months ago declaring the unquestioned unconstitutionality of Prop 2 under the Brentwood Academy decision. Then the U.S. Supreme Court held in favor of the THSAA by a 9-0 vote, and now Roeding doesn't have much to stand on with that argument.

 

Prop 2 needs to be forced out legislatively, because I'm telling you, the privates don't have much of a court case now.

[RockPride]

The real people have spoken.....Proposal 2 is horrible and now it is coming out.

[Hearsay]

The real people have spoken.....Proposal 2 is horrible and now it is coming out.

 

Please tell me that you are not actually claiming that the "real people" are our state legislators, are you? I will hold you to this post for a long time if you are.

[Chenoweth]

Roeding sent a letter to all Ky School Board members about four months ago declaring the unquestioned unconstitutionality of Prop 2 under the Brentwood Academy decision. Then the U.S. Supreme Court held in favor of the THSAA by a 9-0 vote, and now Roeding doesn't have much to stand on with that argument.

 

Prop 2 needs to be forced out legislatively, because I'm telling you, the privates don't have much of a court case now.

 

 

I am not a lawyer, but to me the arguments seem very different. In the Brentwood case wasn't the argument whether soliciting students was protected as "free speech"? Prop 2 is very different.

[All Tell]

Please tell me that you are not actually claiming that the "real people" are our state legislators, are you? I will hold you to this post for a long time if you are.

Not to presume to speak for RP but I would assume he is talking about the real people represented by the legislature rather then the few that were represented by Sears and company.

[All Tell]

Roeding sent a letter to all Ky School Board members about four months ago declaring the unquestioned unconstitutionality of Prop 2 under the Brentwood Academy decision. Then the U.S. Supreme Court held in favor of the THSAA by a 9-0 vote, and now Roeding doesn't have much to stand on with that argument.

 

Prop 2 needs to be forced out legislatively, because I'm telling you, the privates don't have much of a court case now.

While I realize this isn't a death knell for Prop 2, everything I have read has said it would be extremely unlikely if it is ever enacted now.

[Kingfish Stevens]

The article I read quotes Sears as claiming the subcommittee was "abrupt and arrogant" and that it needed to be educated. I would suggest that many observers would apply these traits to Sears.

 

As for the suggestion that the private schools would not have much to stand on if the matter ends up in the courts, I would disagree. Hopefully, it won't get that far and Sears and his Don Quixote cronies can wither back into their hole to plot some other plan to subdue the windmills.

[All Tell]

Kingfish

 

What paper was that article in?

 

:Latest LHL article

 

In this one Sears says that the proposal to better enforce existing rules was irrelevant because the rules weren't enforceable. After stirring the pot in the article about his being named Superintendent of the Year on another board there were allegations from some in the Somerset area that Mr. Sears has been known the try to attract a student or two to his school system. Hmmm.

[Kingfish Stevens]

The article appears in this morning's edition of Ashland Daily Independent. Although the newspaper has a website, I couldn't locate the story in the electronic version.

 

In the article, written by Ronnie Ellis for CNHI News Service, Sears is called "the public voice of those seeking to limit recruiting of public school athletes by private schools". Ellis states that Sears was "totally flabbergasted" by the decision.

 

To quote further from the article:

 

"Sears said Catholic schools 'absolutely' lobbied the committee and he was 'perplexed' by its vote and by its refusal to allow him or other public school advocates to speak before the committee voted."

 

"'The vote was abrupt and without hearing any voices that might educate the members' Sears said. 'It seemed to the point of arrogance and almost rudeness'."

 

I didn't notice Sears's whiny remarks in the LHL version which was written by John Stamper.

[cardinalsvoice]

I know I am stirring the pot...but I know one of the voting members was from Jefferson County...does anyone else know who the other people on the committee that turned it down are and where they are from...would be interesting to see if the ruling was voted down by a representation of the entire state or just a particular region.

 

Let me say that I am not a supporter of Prop 2 as it stands right now...just curious on the vote and who voted on it.

[Bluegrasscard]

Roeding sent a letter to all Ky School Board members about four months ago declaring the unquestioned unconstitutionality of Prop 2 under the Brentwood Academy decision. Then the U.S. Supreme Court held in favor of the THSAA by a 9-0 vote, and now Roeding doesn't have much to stand on with that argument.

 

Prop 2 needs to be forced out legislatively, because I'm telling you, the privates don't have much of a court case now.

 

I believe that the Tennessee case is not similar to Prop 2 since the Tennessee case was a 'freedom of speach' argument in which the schools cliamed it was thier right to truely recuit in a free for all manner.

 

I believe the following court cases are much more relevent to Prop 2.

 

1994 Nebraska case that addresses freedom of association:

 

http://ago.nol.org/local/opinion/index.html?topic=details&id=1598

 

The U.S. Supreme Court has determined that the right to freedom of

association is a penumbral right under the U.S. Constitution's first

amendment. See NAACP v. Alabama, 357 U.S. 449, 78 S.Ct. 1163 (1958).

Since a fundamental right is implicated, any state action having the

effect of curtailing a student's freedom to associate would be subjected

to strict scrutiny. Under this standard, the end which is sought to be

accomplished must be a compelling state interest and the means employed

by the rule "must be such that no less restrictive alternative exists."

State v.

Michalski, 221Neb. 380, 385, 377 N.W.2d 510, 515 (1985).

 

Here is another case from West Virginia ruled that restrictions akin to Prop 2 were arbitrary and capricious:

 

http://www.hslda.org/hs/state/wv/200406220.asp

 

 

On September 23, 2003, Judge Bloom ruled that WVSSAC's rule prohibiting

homeschoolers from playing on public school sports teams violated the

equal protection guarantee in the West Virginia constitution, exceeded

the statutory authority of WVSSAC, and was arbitrary and capricious.

 

If Prop 2 is anything it is definitely 'arbitrary and capricious' since no one can

identify HOW this rule fixes anything with quantifiable and verifiable

facts and data.

 

Since I sent these to Roeding and the other LRC members it may be these cases that are more relevent in their discussion.

[Bluegrasscard]

I know I am stirring the pot...but I know one of the voting members was from Jefferson County...does anyone else know who the other people on the committee that turned it down are and where they are from...would be interesting to see if the ruling was voted down by a representation of the entire state or just a particular region.

 

Let me say that I am not a supporter of Prop 2 as it stands right now...just curious on the vote and who voted on it.

 

Gary Tapp (Bullitt, Spencer and Shelby) and Bob Damron (Jessamine) are two of the members.

 

Since it was 5-0 or 6-0 (I have seen both in the articles) it appears that the rebuk was broad.

[rockmom]

Sen. Dick Roeding [Co-Chair] ( http://www.lrc.ky.gov/Legislator/S011.htm )

Rep. Robert R. Damron [Co-Chair] ( http://www.lrc.ky.gov/Legislator/H039.htm )

Sen. Alice Forgy Kerr, ( http://www.lrc.ky.gov/Legislator/S012.htm )

Sen. Joey Pendleton ( http://www.lrc.ky.gov/Legislator/S003.htm )

Sen. Gary Tapp, ( http://www.lrc.ky.gov/Legislator/S020.htm )

Rep. Danny Ford ( http://www.lrc.ky.gov/Legislator/H080.htm )

Rep. Jimmie Lee, ( http://www.lrc.ky.gov/Legislator/H025.htm )

Rep. Ron Weston, ( http://www.lrc.ky.gov/Legislator/H037.htm )

[Kingfish Stevens]

Sen. Dick Roeding [Co-Chair] ( http://www.lrc.ky.gov/Legislator/S011.htm )

Rep. Robert R. Damron [Co-Chair] ( http://www.lrc.ky.gov/Legislator/H039.htm )

Sen. Alice Forgy Kerr, ( http://www.lrc.ky.gov/Legislator/S012.htm )

Sen. Joey Pendleton ( http://www.lrc.ky.gov/Legislator/S003.htm )

Sen. Gary Tapp, ( http://www.lrc.ky.gov/Legislator/S020.htm )

Rep. Danny Ford ( http://www.lrc.ky.gov/Legislator/H080.htm )

Rep. Jimmie Lee, ( http://www.lrc.ky.gov/Legislator/H025.htm )

 

 

 

This looks like an excellent and balanced group of four Democrats and four Republicans that is co-chaired by one of each party.

 

I would venture to say that their expertise and grasp of the ramifications of Proposal 2 far exceed that of the highly partisan Sears.

[Hearsay]

I am going to use this one post to respond to all, working backwards:

 

1. I am not in favor of and vehemently disagree with Prop 2;

2. I cannot believe that some here are so transparent that they absolutely lambast the intelligence and partisanship of our state legislators regularly in P&R and elsewhere, but here are backslapping and congratulating them as if they are the models of diplomacy and constitutionality. I expect better from some of you;

3. Sears position is not supported by "the few," it is supported by over 220+ votes from athletic directors of member public schools and a significant portion of the public school people themselves. To suggest otherwise is preposterous, and it is this primary fact where I believe the supporters of the private schools have been blind and unprepared;

4. The THSAA Supreme Court case has been posted on here before. It was 9-0 people, with Roberts, Alito, and Thomas writing significant opinions concerning the voluntary nature of the association forming a basis for their opinion. Lawyers, in Louisville and elsewhere, have commented upon the broad strength of the opinion. It was a First Amendment case, not a free speech case, and the First Amendment includes the freedom of religion and association arguments now being put forth;

5. More importantly, the THSAA case, as it stood before the Supreme Court decision, was THE case being cited by Roeding, Shaughnessy, and others (including the Archdiocese attorney) in support of their position. Now that it has been shot down, they are struggling to find secondary support for any legal argument;

6. Prop 2 is not dead;

7. Fletcher won't tackle it before the election.

 

I think that covers my Reply Brief.