Would a true leadoff hitter help Dunn and Griffey?

[h.s.sportsrbest]

And I'm sure he's just itching to come to Cincinnati.

 

Heck, here he'd hit 25 bombs. He'd love that. :sssh:

[h.s.sportsrbest]

A guy like him could make a Reds lineup the best top to bottom in the league.

 

Literally, that isn't much of an exaggeration.

[LRCW]

How does the White Sox and Reds lineups, compare to talent and production.

 

I've never compared them offensively or pitching.

 

 

 

 

Well they have the potential to have a very potent offense with Konerko, Dye, Thome, Iguchi, Crede, but Dye has struggled, Crede is hurt, and obviously so is Podsednik, and I believe the loss of Posednik has really hurt their offense. I agree that a true leadoff hitter would greatly benefit Dunn, Griffey Jr. and the rest of the Reds offense. What, or who do you sacrifice to get such a leadoff hitter, and is there one available anywhere?

[LRCW]

Heck, here he'd hit 25 bombs. He'd love that. :sssh:

 

 

I would be shocked if Seattle let Ichiro walk at the end of the year.

[LRCW]

To answer this question all one would have to do is ask Bench, Perez and Foster how much Rose, Griffey and Morgan helped their production.

[cshs81]

Vladimir Guererro has had 74 AB with RISP this year.

 

Dunn: 56

Griffey: 44

 

RBI

Vlady - 61

Dunn - 40

Griffey- 39

 

I think that's pretty clear. Give Griff and Dunn more opps they have as many RBI as Vlady. And Vladimir ahs to be one of the top 3-5 hitters in the game.

 

 

No secret that the Reds STILL have not figured out how to put a true leadoff man in the lineup. Its obviously not a priority for management (current and past) or it would have been handled instead of the "who can we now try approach."

 

Regardless, you still have to look at how often one is successful when given the chance to drive in a run. Dunn and Griffey have not been successful this season (.237 and .196 respectively) so this leadoff hitter had better have a .500 OB% with a good slugging percentage or a strong stolen base record to get in place enough times to be driven in 20% of the time.

 

Sidenote: It is possible to drive in a run without getting a hit with runners in scoring position so RISP avg is not the end all be all but its a pretty accurate indicator of the likelihood of a runner scoring.

[h.s.sportsrbest]

I would be shocked if Seattle let Ichiro walk at the end of the year.

 

You'll be shocked.

[98NCCalum]

So are we in agreement, maybe the problem is not Dunn and not Griffey but rather the lack of an effective lineup in front of them?

 

and I've been the biggest anti-Narron guy there is, but after re evaulating things, there aren't too many options for him.

[98NCCalum]

You'll be shocked.

Yankees or Mets?

[STRIKE3]

Well they have the potential to have a very potent offense with Konerko, Dye, Thome, Iguchi, Crede, but Dye has struggled, Crede is hurt, and obviously so is Podsednik, and I believe the loss of Posednik has really hurt their offense. I agree that a true leadoff hitter would greatly benefit Dunn, Griffey Jr. and the rest of the Reds offense. What, or who do you sacrifice to get such a leadoff hitter, and is there one available anywhere?

Valid question and I believe, it's part of the game that is getting lost in the Minors at Major level. Seems most players any more, have long swings and look to generate power, rather than have the leadoff style hitters, which were in abundance back in 70's and 80's.

 

Part of the change of the game, like middle relievers, set-up men. Less emphasis for some reason on leadoff and speed, likewise I think the pitching is diluted with average talent, in the Majors.

[cshs81]

Assuming that those figures are correct, Griffey is the most efficient of the three...

 

Vlad = 61/74 = 82.4%

Dunn = 40/56 = 71.4%

Griffey = 39/44 = 88.6%

 

I would guess that driving in nearly 9 of 10 RISP is pretty daggone good.

 

One glaring error in your calculations. Griffey has 16 bombs and Dunn has 15. Take those RBIs out since they were not in scoring position at the time. You now have Dunn with 25 RBIs and Griffey with 23 RBIs(Vlad would be at 49). You would then have to know how many times there were runners on first base ONLY when they hit those bombs and deduct those as well to get an accurate picture of how often a player drives in a run with runners in scoring%.

[cshs81]

So are we in agreement, maybe the problem is not Dunn and not Griffey but rather the lack of an effective lineup in front of them?

 

.

 

No. Again, it certainly doesn't help but their inability to be successful is in black and white.

[mexitucky]

You'll be shocked.

 

I don't believe that Ichiro would go anywhere that doesn't lie on a coast.

[cshs81]

So that no one thinks I'm a Dunn Basher (I really like the guy and think he gets bashed for me than he deserves), let me say this. HRs and RBIs are somewhat meaningless/misleading. Yes, HRs measure "power" but what does it measure in terms of helping a team win?

 

Dunn's #1 virtue is his ability to get on base despite not being a very good overall hitter. How you get on is really irrelevant as long as you somehow get on. He does that well although he's probably down a bit this season. OBP is much more important than simple batting average which does not take into account walks/HBP and Dunn is a walk machine.

 

Where average does come into play (and kills Dunn) is that a low average means you're reducing the chances of scoring a run in that particular inning(side note: Ks are "better" than hitting into DPs). In addition, you're most likely not moving other runners along towards scoring a run.

 

Thus, Dunn is a "riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma" (for you history buffs). He gets on base very well but he does a poor job at moving runners along towards scoring. How much is that worth to THIS particular team? On some teams, it would be a welcome addition.

 

His OBP ability plus the need for him to see "good pitches" would suggest that batting him 4th and lower is not good for the ultimate goal offensively - scoring runs.

[futurecoach]

How many more fastballs would they see if someone, anyone was actually on base with speed in front of them?

 

Dunn can't hit a curve so we need something out there to get him to get a fastball.

 

Wouldn't some speed from someon who was on base regularly do the trick?

 

We send him somewhere with a true leadoff hitter, his average (and I hate average, but it makes the common fan feel better) jumps 30 points, and his HR's and RBI's go up as well.

 

Correct me if I am wrong, but hasn't Freel being leading off for the Reds ALOT the past 2 years, and well having the fast guy in front of them sure hasn't seen to help out much because well Dunn still strikes out a ton and usually still never drives in runs...