Playing With College Field Goal Posts

[Breds82]

It’s far to gone to switch where they play the games (Everyone is almost brainwashed to play at a college or pro stadium), but why not play these at bigger high schools? Who has the biggest stands and outside of the 6A finals how many games would actually sell out if one team actually played at home?

[Colonels_Wear_Blue]

1 hour ago, 9068 said:

So every HS in America has to buy new goal posts when about 2 percent will play in a game on a college or NFL field??

They did in 1959 😁

[Breds82]

Obviously it comes down to money, but if enough coaches/ADs wanted a change in venue it would’ve been done a long time ago. We as fans can dislike it (I want smaller stadiums rhat feel like a packed house) but if the top dogs are fine with it, then no use in complaining.

[Jumper_Dad]

43 minutes ago, Breds82 said:

It’s far to gone to switch where they play the games (Everyone is almost brainwashed to play at a college or pro stadium), but why not play these at bigger high schools? Who has the biggest stands and outside of the 6A finals how many games would actually sell out if one team actually played at home?

Too much of an advantage to let teams host the finals. I'd argue that the semi finals should be played at a neutral site.

I've honestly never worried or understood why people are concerned with a small looking crowd in a large venue. The finals so far have been great this year (except 3A), regardless of venue or crowd size.

[burreaux]

1 hour ago, 9068 said:

So every HS in America has to buy new goal posts when about 2 percent will play in a game on a college or NFL field??

You could grandfather current fields with a 3-5 year transition period to plan for the costs. Also, with so many teams transitioning to synthetic fields I don't think that cost can be a legitimate excuse. I don't really understand why HS, college, and NFL all have different hashes and goal posts size anyway. In basketball I understand that the 3 point distance is a matter of skill but that doesn't really apply to football. 

[Colonels_Wear_Blue]

1 hour ago, Breds82 said:

It’s far to gone to switch where they play the games (Everyone is almost brainwashed to play at a college or pro stadium), but why not play these at bigger high schools? Who has the biggest stands and outside of the 6A finals how many games would actually sell out if one team actually played at home?

Manual Stadium, with a capacity of 11,500. Originally was built in the 1920s as a horseshoe stadium with about 15,000 capacity, but then they wrecked and rebuilt the stadium in 1954 as a dual grandstand stadium with stands on both sides of the field.

The cons of using Manual Stadium: it's grass, and.........no parking lot. Neighborhood on-street parking only.





Home Stands


Visitor Stands

[9068]

20 minutes ago, burreaux said:

You could grandfather current fields with a 3-5 year transition period to plan for the costs. Also, with so many teams transitioning to synthetic fields I don't think that cost can be a legitimate excuse. I don't really understand why HS, college, and NFL all have different hashes and goal posts size anyway. In basketball I understand that the 3 point distance is a matter of skill but that doesn't really apply to football. 

That's why the goalposts are different widths..... SKILL LEVEL.

[Colonels_Wear_Blue]

26 minutes ago, burreaux said:

You could grandfather current fields with a 3-5 year transition period to plan for the costs. Also, with so many teams transitioning to synthetic fields I don't think that cost can be a legitimate excuse. I don't really understand why HS, college, and NFL all have different hashes and goal posts size anyway. In basketball I understand that the 3 point distance is a matter of skill but that doesn't really apply to football. 

High school, college, and NFL goal post uprights were all 18'6" wide until 1959, when college and high school widened their uprights by 5 feet to 23'6". College went back to 18'6" wide in 1991, matching the width of NFL uprights. High school football kept their 23'6" wide uprights.

Not sure what the situation is with the difference in hash marks.

[burreaux]

21 minutes ago, 9068 said:

That's why the goalposts are different widths..... SKILL LEVEL.

Many high school teams won't kick PATs or field goals at the current width, so is making them any closer going to have that much of a difference?

Also if you narrow the hash marks it will theoretically make the kicks easier by reducing the angles kickers are dealing with.

[BWTigers]

My thing on this is both teams have to play with the same goal posts and hash markings so it’s not an advantage or a disadvantage either way. I agree it’s tough on both teams having the difference but I really like these games being played at College Stadiums so I think since both teams have the same disadvantage play on!!!!

[barrel]

The hashmarks for college and pro were changed to help scoring/passing game. The NFL game is pretty much played in the middle of the field. College hashes are about 2 yards inside the HS hashes. By keeping the ball more in the center of the field it helps divide up the space better for teams to throw. 

[Colonels_Wear_Blue]

6 minutes ago, burreaux said:

Many high school teams won't kick PATs or field goals at the current width, so is making them any closer going to have that much of a difference?

Also if you narrow the hash marks it will theoretically make the kicks easier by reducing the angles kickers are dealing with.

Correct. NFL and high school, again, originally set their standards according to college football's guidance, putting their hash marks 53'4' apart, which split the field lengthwise into equal thirds.

In 1945 the NFL narrowed their hash marks to 40 feet apart and 20 yards in from each of the sidelines. Narrowing meant a more straight-on field goal kick, even when kicking from the hash, which translates to more successful field goal attempts. It also "widens" the field for the offense because they are less pinned against the sideline than they are with a wider hash mark. College football and high school football kept their hash marks at the original 1/3 field width.

In 1971 the NFL narrowed their hash marks again to 18'6" apart...so less than half the width they had been spread apart 30 years earlier. The hash marks are currently in line with the field goal uprights, making it even easier for kickers to kick field goals and PATs from the hash marks, and again widening the field for offenses. College football and high school football continued to keep their hash marks at the original 1/3 field width.

Then in 1993, college football rolled out a new list of updated rules including outlawing the "fumblerooskie" play, requiring bleeding players to leave the playing field, further cracking down on "on-field demonstration" including excessive celebration and taunting, removing loss of down from the offensive pass interference penalty, requiring each team to have at least 4 players of their squad lined up on each side of the ball on kickoff plays, and narrowing the hashmarks on their field from 1/3 field width to 40 feet apart and 20 yards in from each of the sidelines. The NFL continued keeping their hashmarks at 18'6' apart, and high school football continued to keep their hashmarks separated by 1/3 field width.

[Colonels_Wear_Blue]

5 hours ago, BWTigers said:

My thing on this is both teams have to play with the same goal posts and hash markings so it’s not an advantage or a disadvantage either way. I agree it’s tough on both teams having the difference but I really like these games being played at College Stadiums so I think since both teams have the same disadvantage play on!!!!

My take is that the KHSAA should make it one of their requirements for the football finals contract that the school hosting the finals has to be able to provide field goal uprights that follow NFHS guidelines, the same way the KHSAA requires the arenas bidding to be awarded the contract for the Sweet 16 to provide a basketball court with 3-point markings that match the high school standard.

Semi-permanent football field goal uprights have been manufactured for a good while, apparently, and allow to remove the college-width field goal posts and replace them with high school-width field goal posts for state championship weekend. Then they can easily put the college-width field goal posts back into place. That allows for the state finals games to continue taking place in college football stadiums while not forcing the teams to adjust their PAT/field goal kicking to a 5ft narrower field goal.

[Breds82]

Do you think Uk, UL or Western is begging to host the finals? It comes down to money. If the KHSAA pays enough the venues will open their arms, uprights be damed. I’m all for the games being played at a big high school stadium. 

[Colonels_Wear_Blue]

14 minutes ago, Breds82 said:

Do you think Uk, UL or Western is begging to host the finals? It comes down to money. If the KHSAA pays enough the venues will open their arms, uprights be damed. I’m all for the games being played at a big high school stadium. 

My understanding is that the KHSAA has been receiving bids from at least EKU, UofL, UK, and WKU each of the last 5 or 6 times they have put the state finals location out to bid.

The last time the football finals moved was for the 2009 finals because WKU offered the "best value" bid (aka - lowest price) to have the KHSAA host the finals at Houchens-LT Smith Stadium, and were awarded the 4 year contract which was awarded to them again in 2013. The reason the finals moved to Kroger Field for the 2017 finals was because UK offered the "best value" to have the KHSAA host their finals there. It's been a minute since I came across an article about it recently, but I know UK, UofL and Western are at least putting together bid proposals to host. They're multi-million deals for the universities.

Are they "begging"? Maybe not. But they definitely care enough to continue to bid. EKU hasn't hosted the football state finals since 1978, but they continue to bid for them. Seems like there's certainly some desire to host coming from the state colleges/universities.