Playing With College Field Goal Posts

[Colonels_Wear_Blue]

From the NFHS Football Rules:

Rule 1, § 2, Article 3.e, Note 2
"It is permissible to use college or professional fields with hash marks marked at the distance specified by their respective codes."

Rule 1, §2, Article 5.d, Note 1
"It is permissible to use college or professional fields with goal post uprights set at the width specified by their respective codes."

[Colonels_Wear_Blue]

Seems like there have been a lot of games over the years where college field goal posts have made a difference in the outcome of the game. The 2020 Beechwood vs. Lexington Christian Academy 2A state championship game comes to mind, in particular, where the Eagles had a game-winning field goal attempt that hit the upright and didn't go through, sending the game to overtime. Beechwood won in overtime.

There were some kicks today in the 2A state championship between Mayfield and Beechwood that appeared to have missed by a margin close enough for the kick to have been good in high school field goal posts, but not the narrower college field goal posts. There was a PAT in the 4A state championship game this evening between Boyle County and Corbin that hit the upright and did not go through.

What other games come to memory where the college field goal posts being used for our state championship games made a difference in the final score...or in the final outcome?

[Colonels_Wear_Blue]

College football originally was played using rugby union posts, which has uprights that are 5.6 meters apart, which converts to just barely more than 18' 5-1/4". Around the turn of the century, college football standardized the with of their field goal uprights to 18'6' for the sake of simplification, and the NFL followed suit in adopting 18'6' for their field goal posts.

In 1959 college football opted to widen their goal posts to 23'4" and high school football followed the same course as college football, widening when college football widened their goal posts. Then college football narrowed their goal posts back to 18'6" in 1991, but high school kept their 23'4" width.

[snakesnot_2000]

In championship games it’s ok I guess. 

[burreaux]

15 minutes ago, snakesnot_2000 said:

In championship games it’s ok I guess. 

I don't love it, but I'm with you that's it is tolerable for just one game. 

[DanvilleFan]

Maybe its time for high schools to narrow the goal posts?

[Ram]

I don't love it either.  But, I'm on the fence about it, to an extent.  They have played all season with one width, then in the biggest game of the season, we change the rules.  But, at the same time, the teams/players in the championship games are supposed to be the best the state has to offer and should be able to adapt and it is the same for everyone.  

But, I always go back to the former, changing in the last game seems wrong.  

But, in the long run, the championship games are going to be played at a college, more than likely, and no one is taking those goal posts down, so it is what it is.  

[Jumper_Dad]

I know it's not the same comparison, but do they shorten the Rupp court 10 feet to proper high school length during the sweet 16?

I don't know, for sure but it seems like maybe they did at one point but don't any more.

[Colonels_Wear_Blue]

1 minute ago, Jumper_Dad said:

I know it's not the same comparison, but do they shorten the Rupp court 10 feet to proper high school length during the sweet 16?

I don't know, for sure but it seems like maybe they did at one point but don't any more.

No, but they DO move the 3-point line on the floor, which is a much more comparable scenario to the goal posts.

[sportsfan41]

Both teams have to kick at the same uprights so I think it's a bit of a wash refarding them in the state championship game.  If anything perhaps it's time to make the switch to college width for the uprights.  

[FSfan]

58 minutes ago, Colonels_Wear_Blue said:

Seems like there have been a lot of games over the years where college field goal posts have made a difference in the outcome of the game. The 2020 Beechwood vs. Lexington Christian Academy 2A state championship game comes to mind, in particular, where the Eagles had a game-winning field goal attempt that hit the upright and didn't go through, sending the game to overtime. Beechwood won in overtime.

There were some kicks today in the 2A state championship between Mayfield and Beechwood that appeared to have missed by a margin close enough for the kick to have been good in high school field goal posts, but not the narrower college field goal posts. There was a PAT in the 4A state championship game this evening between Boyle County and Corbin that hit the upright and did not go through.

What other games come to memory where the college field goal posts being used for our state championship games made a difference in the final score...or in the final outcome?

The 4A title games in 2018 and 2019 had huge extra point misses. In 2018, Johnson Central missed their first extra point which later forced them to go for two in the final minute to try to tie Franklin-Simpson. The two point conversion came up short and FS won 14-12. Then the next year, Boyle County missed an extra point which provided Johnson Central the margin in their 21-20 win. 

[DanvilleFan]

24 minutes ago, Ram said:

I don't love it either.  But, I'm on the fence about it, to an extent.  They have played all season with one width, then in the biggest game of the season, we change the rules.  But, at the same time, the teams/players in the championship games are supposed to be the best the state has to offer and should be able to adapt and it is the same for everyone.  

But, I always go back to the former, changing in the last game seems wrong.  

But, in the long run, the championship games are going to be played at a college, more than likely, and no one is taking those goal posts down, so it is what it is.  

I guess this isn't only for football, though.  Teams play most of their regular season, district, and regional games in high school gyms and then get to the state tournament and have to shoot with the deeper sight lines at Rupp Arena.

[Colonels_Wear_Blue]

1 minute ago, sportsfan41 said:

Both teams have to kick at the same uprights so I think it's a bit of a wash regarding them in the state championship game.  If anything perhaps it's time to make the switch to college width for the uprights.  

Eghhhh, I hear you, and honestly that's what my thought was when I said "dealing with the goal posts at the finals are a part of winning a state championship" back in the final score thread from the Beechwood/LCA 2020 championship game. But today has me kind of questioning that a little.

The KHSAA signs multi-year contracts worth a WHOLE lot of money for securing the state championship stadiums. UK has to swap out sections of the floor at Rupp to move the 3-point line in order to have the basketball Sweet 16 played there. It is definitely not an unreasonable measure to require UK to install semi-permanent field goal posts...those are made, and they are made SPECIFICALLY for the circumstance of high schools and colleges playing on the same field.

I think after seeing the fact that there are at least 3 state championship games out of the last 18 (16.66%) where the score would be different....and one that would have definitively had a different winner....I'm kind of starting to reconsider.

It's not a state championship game, but I think back 1997 when Cov Cath played Moeller. Moeller had a kicker, Tom Pucke, that was legitimately consistent at making 50 yard field goals. His range was a killer for opposing teams, because with a team like Moe, it meant there were virtually no drives that didn't end in points for the Crusaders. So looking at scenarios like that, having different sized field goal uprights can literally change the game plan for a team. Could you call that "part of the scenario of playing in the state championship"? Sure. But I don't know that that's what we should be doing to see the theoretical best high school football game of the season.

[Colonels_Wear_Blue]

16 minutes ago, FSfan said:

The 4A title games in 2018 and 2019 had huge extra point misses. In 2018, Johnson Central missed their first extra point which later forced them to go for two in the final minute to try to tie Franklin-Simpson. The two point conversion came up short and FS won 14-12. Then the next year, Boyle County missed an extra point which provided Johnson Central the margin in their 21-20 win. 

Any chance you recall whether or not the extra point misses close enough to have been changed if the field goals were standard high school width?

[FSfan]

5 minutes ago, Colonels_Wear_Blue said:

Any chance you recall whether or not the extra point misses close enough to have been changed if the field goals were standard high school width?

I think they were both missed, not blocked. I’d have to find a replay to be sure how close they were to the uprights, but I think they were both pretty close.