Let's Trade Andy

[NamecipS]

That is up in the air. They have to wait until an arbitrator rules on it. I would guess that won't happen until after this season. If he rules the Bengals do get to keep him one more year. The Bengals then still have the leverage, because they could hold out to get the offer they want. Plus now with the Jimmy G trade there is a framework for that type of a trade. So they could wait until just before the draft, or during the season again like they did this year.

 

Even if it works out AJ is with the Bengals in 2018, I still see no way they get a 2 and 3 for him. Even if another team is involved, they probably won't get a 2 and a 3 and even if they did, they probably won't be as high as the Cleveland picks would have been.

[futurecoach]

Even if it works out AJ is with the Bengals in 2018, I still see no way they get a 2 and 3 for him. Even if another team is involved, they probably won't get a 2 and a 3 and even if they did, they probably won't be as high as the Cleveland picks would have been.

 

Cleveland has three 2nd round picks. I seriously doubt they were given us their first second round pick which would have been at the beginning of the second round. Same with the third which I believe they have two 3rd round picks. So can't say they wouldn't have been as high. We have zero idea which 2nd round pick they were going to give us.

[futurecoach]

The question not being asked is why was AJ not traded sooner like last offseason (or even the offseason before)?

 

Bengals asking price was probably higher than people wanted to give up. After the Jimmy G. deal it set a baseline to work with.

[oldgrappler]

Well first they may not get a chance to trade him, because he may be an unrestricted free agent. Second if they did still have him, why couldn't they get that same deal from the Browns? If the Browns truly were wanting to make that deal, then how would waiting a few months change that?

 

The details are still sketchy. The report in Cleveland is that the Browns sent an email to the Bengals that the Bengals didn't see until after the deadline. But all that the Browns needed to do was copy the League the same document they sent to Cinci and the league would have accepted it as the correct communication. They (the Browns), instead relied on the Bengals to sign the deal and send in the copy that the Browns had also already signed. This, however, would not have counted for the league because they require independent communication.

 

I don't know. That doesn't sound right to me. That would be a huge procedural error on the Browns part.

 

To futurecoach's point: Skuttle-butt is that the front office was trying to appease the head coach and get him a QB who might be able to win some games this season. The primary interest was in winning now so waiting until after the season may dilute the offer they were willing to make. Plus, there will be more options on the table.

[gametime]

The details are still sketchy. The report in Cleveland is that the Browns sent an email to the Bengals that the Bengals didn't see until after the deadline. But all that the Browns needed to do was copy the League the same document they sent to Cinci and the league would have accepted it as the correct communication. They (the Browns), instead relied on the Bengals to sign the deal and send in the copy that the Browns had also already signed. This, however, would not have counted for the league because they require independent communication.

 

I don't know. That doesn't sound right to me. That would be a huge procedural error on the Browns part.

 

To futurecoach's point: Skuttle-butt is that the front office was trying to appease the head coach and get him a QB who might be able to win some games this season. The primary interest was in winning now so waiting until after the season may dilute the offer they were willing to make. Plus, there will be more options on the table.

 

That report is false. The Bengals filled the trade on time with the NFL. The Browns didn't...

[NamecipS]

That report is false. The Bengals filled the trade on time with the NFL. The Browns didn't...

 

Heard the same on 1530 at lunch from the Cleveland team reporter. He had an interesting take on it too. He stated the mgmt team started the trade talks to appease the coaching staff, then when the deal was framed, mgmt got cold feet and "forgot" to send in the paperwork. He was thankful they didn't because he felt like the Browns were getting fleeced.

[Oldbird]

Bengals asking price was probably higher than people wanted to give up. After the Jimmy G. deal it set a baseline to work with.

 

Since he hasn't played last two seasons and may walk after this season, then maybe the question is why didn't the Bengals lower the price? Obviously would have been thrilled with a 2nd and 3rd from the horrible Browns, but before I knew that is what they were getting I would have been happy with just a 2nd, or just a 3rd or even just a 4th.

[CincySportsFan]

Since he hasn't played last two seasons and may walk after this season, then maybe the question is why didn't the Bengals lower the price? Obviously would have been thrilled with a 2nd and 3rd from the horrible Browns, but before I knew that is what they were getting I would have been happy with just a 2nd, or just a 3rd or even just a 4th.

 

I guess it depends on what the Bengals actually thought of AJ. Not publicly, mind you, but privately. If it was a situation similar to New England, where they thought highly of him and would've liked to have kept him, but knew they couldn't...then you don't want to just give him away to a division rival. Now sending him somewhere like Arizona, that's a different story. Price would come down if he went there.

[futurecoach]

Since he hasn't played last two seasons and may walk after this season, then maybe the question is why didn't the Bengals lower the price? Obviously would have been thrilled with a 2nd and 3rd from the horrible Browns, but before I knew that is what they were getting I would have been happy with just a 2nd, or just a 3rd or even just a 4th.

 

I am not sure why we are even questioning how they did this. In all honesty they played it perfectly. They obviously did value him, and them keeping him led them getting to what would have been a 2nd and 3rd round pick. So I am not sure if questioning how they handled it is right at all. They honestly did it perfectly, if it wasn't for the craziest botch of a trade in history. People would be talking today about how smart the Bengals were in that trade.

[Oldbird]

I am not sure why we are even questioning how they did this. In all honesty they played it perfectly. They obviously did value him, and them keeping him led them getting to what would have been a 2nd and 3rd round pick. So I am not sure if questioning how they handled it is right at all. They honestly did it perfectly, if it wasn't for the craziest botch of a trade in history. People would be talking today about how smart the Bengals were in that trade.

 

I would have loved it had the trade worked, but it wouldn't have stopped me from saying they should have traded him long ago. This isn't revisionist history. Whatever value McCarron did or didn't have, it clearly was too great to be housed on the roster as a backup QB rather than being converted to an offensive or defensive asset that could have helped the past 2 years.

[oldgrappler]

That report is false. The Bengals filled the trade on time with the NFL. The Browns didn't...

 

What exactly is false? The Bengals filled the trade papers out and sent them in on time. The Browns did not. That is what I stated. Some say the Browns were counting on the Bengals to send in the paper they had already signed. But the Browns should know that this is not how it is done and the Bengals were not obligated to do that.

 

According to a report, the Bengals did not see an email sent to them by the Browns because they were busy filling out their paper work and getting it in on time. Also, it came from one of the Browns underlings, not those who had been making the deal so the Bengals didn't recognize it for what it was. They saw it after the 4 pm deadline.

 

Again, the Browns expectation was that the Bengals would forward this to the NFL but it didn't make it there. The Browns mistake was not filing it themselves, according to the report. You can read it here:

 

Bengals located email from Browns about AJ McCarron trade, but NFL still never heard from Browns | cleveland.com

 

Heard the same on 1530 at lunch from the Cleveland team reporter. He had an interesting take on it too. He stated the mgmt team started the trade talks to appease the coaching staff, then when the deal was framed, mgmt got cold feet and "forgot" to send in the paperwork. He was thankful they didn't because he felt like the Browns were getting fleeced.

 

I don't believe this report that the personnel guys deliberately fumbled the trade so it wouldn't get done. That is not an adult way to handle business and would create more problems than they can deal with if true.

 

It appears that with the deadline looming, their hurry-up offense committed an unforced error. That's embarrassing. But I didn't really want McCarron any way. He's a restricted free agent after the season and will cost more money to keep. They would have given up draft picks and probably had to let him walk after the season.

 

The real question that the personnel guys should have to answer to the ownership on is why they didn't land Garoppolo and SF did. There is no way that SF could have matched an offer by the Browns. If they wanted G, you would think, from the Browns end, he would be here. BUt it didn't happen. Why?

 

I don't buy it was because Garoppolo's agent preferred SF. Since when did a player's agent dictate to Bellichick which team he would make a deal with?

[futurecoach]

I would have loved it had the trade worked, but it wouldn't have stopped me from saying they should have traded him long ago. This isn't revisionist history. Whatever value McCarron did or didn't have, it clearly was too great to be housed on the roster as a backup QB rather than being converted to an offensive or defensive asset that could have helped the past 2 years.

 

So basically you would have gave in to any offer a team made, as long as you got something? That's why they played it perfectly. I don't see many people complaining about the Pats doing the same thing. Not to mention I love people act like drafting someone automatically means they would be good. Say they did trade McCarron for a 4th rounder just because as you basically said. There is no way to know if those draft picks would have helped. Shoot we just drafted two tackles in the 1st and 2nd round two years ago and well it hasn't worked out so well.

 

The Bengals played it perfectly. They had a backup QB they knew they could still win with in McCarron. Which in this league having a backup qb who you could win with is a big thing. Secondily they didn't just trade him to trade him like apparently you wanted. Now sadly yeah they may not get anything for him. However that is not their fault on this. They played it perfectly and should have got a 2nd and 3rd rounder out of it, if it wasn't for the other team not knowing how to do a trade.

[futurecoach]

What exactly is false? The Bengals filled the trade papers out and sent them in on time. The Browns did not. That is what I stated. Some say the Browns were counting on the Bengals to send in the paper they had already signed. But the Browns should know that this is not how it is done and the Bengals were not obligated to do that.

 

According to a report, the Bengals did not see an email sent to them by the Browns because they were busy filling out their paper work and getting it in on time. Also, it came from one of the Browns underlings, not those who had been making the deal so the Bengals didn't recognize it for what it was. They saw it after the 4 pm deadline.

 

Again, the Browns expectation was that the Bengals would forward this to the NFL but it didn't make it there. The Browns mistake was not filing it themselves, according to the report. You can read it here:

 

Bengals located email from Browns about AJ McCarron trade, but NFL still never heard from Browns | cleveland.com

 

 

 

I don't believe this report that the personnel guys deliberately fumbled the trade so it wouldn't get done. That is not an adult way to handle business and would create more problems than they can deal with if true.

 

It appears that with the deadline looming, their hurry-up offense committed an unforced error. That's embarrassing. But I didn't really want McCarron any way. He's a restricted free agent after the season and will cost more money to keep. They would have given up draft picks and probably had to let him walk after the season.

 

The real question that the personnel guys should have to answer to the ownership on is why they didn't land Garoppolo and SF did. There is no way that SF could have matched an offer by the Browns. If they wanted G, you would think, from the Browns end, he would be here. BUt it didn't happen. Why?

 

I don't buy it was because Garoppolo's agent preferred SF. Since when did a player's agent dictate to Bellichick which team he would make a deal with?

 

I would say two things on that. One Hue Jackson knows McCarron and coached him, so he probably preferred McCarron. Secondily as much as people say that we haven't seen much on McCarron to truly know. There has been even less to see on Jimmy G. Lets not forget Matt Cassell also looked good for the Pats, so did Ryan Mallet, and Jacoby Brisset. I like Jimmy G and think he will be good, but there is actually even less data on him than McCarron.

[Oldbird]

So basically you would have gave in to any offer a team made, as long as you got something?

 

If you aren't going to read and digest what I am saying then I can't debate this with you. No where did I even come close to saying that I would have given McCarron away. Nice try though.

 

I don't see many people complaining about the Pats doing the same thing.

 

I know this is going to come as a shock to you. We aren't the Patriots. They might have the luxury of having quality back up with trade value on the roster. We do not. Nice try again... I guess.

 

 

Not to mention I love people act like drafting someone automatically means they would be good. Say they did trade McCarron for a 4th rounder just because as you basically said. There is no way to know if those draft picks would have helped. Shoot we just drafted two tackles in the 1st and 2nd round two years ago and well it hasn't worked out so well.

 

Thank you for educating me on the dynamics of how drafting NFL talent works. It is an imperfect science. There are hits and misses; however, I feel better about getting a hit when we get more draft picks.

 

 

The Bengals played it perfectly. They had a backup QB they knew they could still win with in McCarron. Which in this league having a backup qb who you could win with is a big thing. Secondily they didn't just trade him to trade him like apparently you wanted. Now sadly yeah they may not get anything for him. However that is not their fault on this. They played it perfectly and should have got a 2nd and 3rd rounder out of it, if it wasn't for the other team not knowing how to do a trade.

 

They got nothing and they played it perfectly. If you say so. :lol:

[futurecoach]

If you aren't going to read and digest what I am saying then I can't debate this with you. No where did I even come close to saying that I would have given McCarron away. Nice try though.

 

 

 

I know this is going to come as a shock to you. We aren't the Patriots. They might have the luxury of having quality back up with trade value on the roster. We do not. Nice try again... I guess.

 

 

 

 

Thank you for educating me on the dynamics of how drafting NFL talent works. It is an imperfect science. There are hits and misses; however, I feel better about getting a hit when we get more draft picks.

 

 

 

 

They got nothing and they played it perfectly. If you say so. :lol:

 

They did play it perfectly. I don't think any team in history would expect a team to forget to call in the trade they just agreed on.

 

Also you did basically make it sound like you would have taken any trade when you said you would have even taken a 4th rounder.

 

Also what does us not being the Pats have to do with anything? The Bengals have been considered for almost the last 7 years as having one of the best rosters in football, but just underachieving with it. Trading away a backup qb who they could win with if Dalton was hurt, for just a 4th round pick as you said you would take wouldn't have made to much of a difference if any the last 2 years.