Will this coach lose his job?

[Bipsic]

I am pretty sure #1 is the basis for the court decisions.

 

That is my understanding as well. I really like this scenario for discussion purposes and I wish it was a little livelier in here. My previous posts in here were more or less my opinions rather than where I think he stands legally.

 

Video that shows the prayer and his interview

[MayfieldFan]

I watched the video. So apparently he told his kids they could not participate, I could be wrong about that, wasn't entirely clear.

But then he goes on to say that he "wanted to do right by his kids" that he was doing it for them, to teach them to do "what is right." In other words, he is openly trying to teach his "kids."

Garden variety mixing of religion and government. Along with a heavy dose of media self-promotion.

One post criticized my earlier post comparing him to Kim Davis. I think it is a reasonable comparison. Let's see if I can make that stick: Points of Comparison 1. Both take clearly untenable positions with respect to the legality of the situation. 2. Both are represented by Liberty Counsel. 3. Yep, you heard that right, the same lawyers. 4. Did I mention they both have the same lawyers. 5. If Liberty ever volunteers to represent any of you...run out of the room. 6. Coach quote: “I don’t understand why You picked me for this. There are so many other people who are so much more qualified. I’m just an average guy. . and Kim quote: I'm just a nobody, so it was really humbling to think he would want to meet or know me,” she said.

7. Both of them government employees, both pushing their religious agendas on others. 8. Both using the media.

[jericho]

I really like Bipsic's take. This is unlike any "silent prayer" I have ever heard of. Silent prayers are not pre-announced on FB, nor are they conducted on the 50 yard line.

 

For all the supporters of this, what if he coached your kid, and kneeled toward Mecca?

 

Why does Islam always have to be brought into these topics.

[75center]

If I'm the superintendent he's gone.

[PurplePride92]

Why does Islam always have to be brought into these topics.

 

Because people tend to be more sympathetic to Christians than Muslims in these type of situations. Granted the Muslim dude would get an invite to the White House after being fired but I think you get my point.

[MayfieldFan]

Why does Islam always have to be brought into these topics.

 

Holy Moly. Is this a sincere question? If it is, I consider it progress. Why don't you take a stab at an answer?

[ggclfan]

Coach Shields used to say a prayer with our team before and after every game...oh the horror...

 

This guy did not self promote at all. The only reason anyone knows anything about it is that the school said he could not do it any more. Nobody is being pressured to pray any longer in schools (if anything they are being pressured NOT to pray) so the argument that people cannot pray because others will be forced to seems bogus to me. I just don't get why atheists having a problem with others praying in public. It does not affect you in any way. I wish more atheists were like Penn Gillette, an open atheist. When a woman sent him a bible trying to convert him, he said that while he had no interest in converting, he actually appreciated the woman doing so because he knew SHE was trying to help him in her way.

[ggclfan]

And by the way if a Muslim coach wants to pray after a game and others want to join, I couldn't care less. How does that affect me in anyway?

[capt278]

Coach Shields used to say a prayer with our team before and after every game...oh the horror...

 

This guy did not self promote at all. The only reason anyone knows anything about it is that the school said he could not do it any more. Nobody is being pressured to pray any longer in schools (if anything they are being pressured NOT to pray) so the argument that people cannot pray because others will be forced to seems bogus to me. I just don't get why atheists having a problem with others praying in public. It does not affect you in any way. I wish more atheists were like Penn Gillette, an open atheist. When a woman sent him a bible trying to convert him, he said that while he had no interest in converting, he actually appreciated the woman doing so because he knew SHE was trying to help him in her way.

 

Because it seems a lot of atheists demand tolerance but are not willing to give it.

[MayfieldFan]

I just don't get why atheists having a problem with others praying in public. .

 

Because that is not what is happening. This is not praying in public. This is a government employee promoting religion while in the performance of his duties. If you can't see the problem with that, contact his employer, most of whom are not atheists and ask why they have a problem with it.

[KingOfClutch33]

Obviously not because you seem like a rational adult. This is exactly how you go about living as a religious person in a publicly funded job. Ironically, this is also how I genuinely respect your convictions believe them to be sincere.

 

My opinion would change and your job would probably be in jeopardy if the following happened analogous to this story. You knew of certain restrictions but decided to first air your dirty laundry in a public forum where you knew everybody would read it. You then contacted a group of others that you knew would be in the cafeteria at this time. You then waited until the exact moment that everyone was watching and waiting for you to react. You then went to the center of the cafeteria to make sure all eyes were on you where you made sure everyone knew what you were doing. If all of this happened, I would think the same about you as I do this coach, being seen praying is more important than the actual prayer being said.

 

I appreciate this post, and agree with you on all of the points. If this guy is going out of his way to make it a show and do all of the things that it is saying he is doing, then like mentioned before he is now taking on a storm that may cause him to lose his job. In my years of coaching football I know numerous teams that prayed before a game or after a game and it was optional but the coaches were a part of that prayer if they chose to be. No one has ever had a problem with that, from what I know, and that is a good thing. But it was also never made a big event, just something where the team took a moment of silence and if they wanted to pray by themselves they could if they didn't want to they could think about the game, or whatever they choose.

 

My one question would be, if the coach says take a knee, bow your head, if you want to pray then do it, if you want to think about the game do it, and everyone is silent does that go against the idea pertaining to the article?

Thanks for the compliment and again I love your post, I think you hit the nail on the head!

[jericho]

Holy Moly. Is this a sincere question? If it is, I consider it progress. Why don't you take a stab at an answer?

 

What answer do you want me to give. A tolerant one or an intolerant one?

[Bipsic]

My one question would be, if the coach says take a knee, bow your head, if you want to pray then do it, if you want to think about the game do it, and everyone is silent does that go against the idea pertaining to the article?

Thanks for the compliment and again I love your post, I think you hit the nail on the head!

 

There are two ways to look at this scenario. (1) Legally speaking are the actions on the up and up and (2) whether I support the actions.

 

(1) In some sense, you can do whatever until or unless a superior or someone with the law on his side tells you to stop. By no means am I anything close to a First Amendment expert, but my understanding is that generally moments of silence are constitutional. Of course this doesn't mean headaches can't occur. Sometimes you have individuals or groups who challenge every little thing whether or not their claims have merit simply because they have an ax to grind, and sometimes you have coaches (like this one in my opinion) who know the limits and selfishly exceed them combined with groups like the Liberty Counsel who blatantly misstate the law in order to bring attention to themselves.

 

(2) I can't imagine going through an entire football game and not taking a minute or two to reflect after the dust settles. I don't have the slightest problem with the scenario you described. In fact, I would argue that the coach described above is more the norm than the exception and cannot see how anyone could have a legitimate gripe with his actions. Of course execution matters. This is a far cry from the JV/assistant coach getting in bed with the Liberty Institute, inviting attention and making a spectacle in front of a horde of cameras.

[KingOfClutch33]

There are two ways to look at this scenario. (1) Legally speaking are the actions on the up and up and (2) whether I support the actions.

 

(1) In some sense, you can do whatever until or unless a superior or someone with the law on his side tells you to stop. By no means am I anything close to a First Amendment expert, but my understanding is that generally moments of silence are constitutional. Of course this doesn't mean headaches can't occur. Sometimes you have individuals or groups who challenge every little thing whether or not their claims have merit simply because they have an ax to grind, and sometimes you have coaches (like this one in my opinion) who know the limits and selfishly exceed them combined with groups like the Liberty Counsel who blatantly misstate the law in order to bring attention to themselves.

 

(2) I can't imagine going through an entire football game and not taking a minute or two to reflect after the dust settles. I don't have the slightest problem with the scenario you described. In fact, I would argue that the coach described above is more the norm than the exception and cannot see how anyone could have a legitimate gripe with his actions. Of course execution matters. This is a far cry from the JV/assistant coach getting in bed with the Liberty Institute, inviting attention and making a spectacle in front of a horde of cameras.

 

I totally agree with you, just wanted to see if something as small as the scenario I mentioned is something that a school would frown upon. I am always curious how touchy school districts are with religion scenarios. Totally off topic but I also wondered if a teacher carrying a bible but not opening or reading during class would cause an issue?

[jericho]

He was fired as of yesterday.