Cordia Lawsuit????

[JokersWild24]

You and I both know that the pointing the finger at others won't lessen the penalty for Cordia. Seems they can only go on their issue alone and the rest won't even be considered' date=' as bad as we'd all like it to be.[/quote']

 

 

That really isn't the point though. The KHSAA can't really increase the penalty. If they do, it just screams retaliation for challenging them.

 

Cordia is like Pitino bringing a not-as talented Louisville team into Rupp with the game plan of making it ugly.

 

Cordia went all in, no turning back three years ago. If there was any doubt about that, it was resolved when they went to court with the KHSAA-- twice.

 

All they'll be out is attorney's fees and the cost of taking it to court. The KHSAA and Cordia have been at each other for far too long for either one to back out now really.

 

I don't think anyone same is thinking Cordia gets off on everything and gets a letter of apology and a Christmas card. I don't think it's unreasonable to think Cordia has more leverage by going to court than they do just swallowing the penalty as is right now either.

[Smallhoops]

Sometimes a party just needs to force the opposition to prove their case against them. Put another way, sometimes you need to give the other side the opportunity to screw something up. If the KHSAA has its ducks in a row and backs up its allegations with admissible evidence, the penalties will stand and, as suggested, Corida won't be in much worse shape except for the expenditure of attorney fees and perhaps some residual bad will.

[JokersWild24]

I wouldn't be surprised at any ruling a judge would make with regard to the KHSAA and their penalty. It's also not going to take place in the coal fields and appeal process is clearly marked out in the bylaw and in the KHSAA's back yard.

 

Wasn't Cordia's most recent suit in Franklin and/or moved to Lexington anyway? I thought the suit was at least filed in Franklin later moved to Lexington. I'm thinking the Ortiz/Chapman ruling came through CKY.

[JokersWild24]

If they're smart, they should base it on the fact that while they got burned, the folks 15 miles from them never get busted, ever.

 

I'm not defending their actions — which were egregious, for sure — but from the Cordia standpoint it comes down to pointing fingers at the whole system. From their standpoint, why is it wrong when we go all-in but it's OK for PCC, Hazard and KCC to get one or two each year that passes muster?

 

The KHSAA has put itself in a not-so-good position by selectively enforcing rules. Sure, it's easy to lay the hammer on Cordia because, well, they're not supposed to be any good. It stands out when they come out of nowhere.

 

I don't really think the penalties necessarily "came out of nowhere", but think they have a solid argument about getting blasted over things like open gyms, etc. when they're the only one facing a stiff penalty.

[Jim Schue]

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I don't really think the penalties necessarily "came out of nowhere", but think they have a solid argument about getting blasted over things like open gyms, etc. when they're the only one facing a stiff penalty.

 

I was speaking in terms of their recent success coming out of nowhere. The fact that a traditionally crummy basketball school was all of a sudden in the top 25 contending for region titles definitely draws more attention than a school that's usually pretty good adding that "missing piece."

[JokersWild24]

I was speaking in terms of their recent success coming out of nowhere. The fact that a traditionally crummy basketball school was all of a sudden in the top 25 contending for region titles definitely draws more attention than a school that's usually pretty good adding that "missing piece."

 

 

No doubt. I gotcha now. :thumb:

 

 

I do think there's a difference in what Cordia was doing and what PCC and KCC were doing as well, and I'll be the first to admit that.

 

I'll also say that IF the allegations about Keita were true and I were in charge, that I'd probably make whoever knew about it want to retire if they didn't take the penalties and/or resign. No place in high school athletics for that.

 

 

I'm all for kids getting a chance at bettering themselves and leaving decisions up to the parents or guardians who'll look out for their best interests. I know it's probably somewhat of a leap of faith to send your kid from a New York, Mississippi, Canada, etc. to go to school and play basketball for someone and hope they get a scholarship. Reading the story about Oowoahtoah's neighborhood and what he got out of honestly made me feel good.

 

I'm all for Cordia wanting something that their community could be proud of and making a commitment to trying to build the profile of their school and community through athletics. I have no doubt that there are people within those walls who want what's best for the kid's, education and all.

 

What I'm NOT about, however, is kids who don't have a structure, stability, and sense of belonging from constantly being shuffled from one basketball program to another. I'm not about kid's being able to cut corners and get by on their athleticism in the short run. I'm not about coaches putting their own agendas above the kid's long term interests and/or not training them for life after high school basketball.

 

I honestly don't know tons of the specifics of the Cordia situation, but I do think that they probably, at the bare minimum, did some good because too many people in the community who were born and raised there that seemed well-intentioned and had done good things for the community before they even heard the name Roderick Rhodes. I'm sure that this whole ordeal hasn't been easy on them, but sometimes that's not really what it's about either.

 

I really think if people picked my brain on how I really felt about hypothetical situations, that the answers I'd give with the utmost sincerity would probably surprise some.

[cahall]

I would suggest Cordia take the punishment. Wait for Knott's four to graduate so they can put together a team that so he can finally beat them with.

[SauceBoss]

I would suggest Cordia take the punishment. Wait for Knott's four to graduate so they can put together a team that so he can finally beat them with.

 

 

Who are Knott's 4? I guess Justice, Hall, Christon, and Cornett?

 

If we're talking homegrown, then Justice, Combs, and Caudill are about as much of putting together a team.

 

Justice's Dad was hired as an assistant. Cunningham's Dad was hired as an assistant. One of those two moves had people up in arms much more than the other.

 

Knott County Central, Perry County Central, and Hazard were worried about Cordia. We all know it. If Knott County Central could get some of the kids Cordia had, you know good and well they'd take them if they thought they'd help.

 

Cordia knocked Knott County Central out of the district in 05 and 07 with their own kids anyway.

[cahall]

I was basing my comment on Rod's statement of not having to worry about losing to Knott again this season. Justice was an eighth grader when he came to Knott so he could have enrolled anywhere. Letcher blew the whole deal when they let Raymond go. He would probably have had B.B. as his assistant and the other three could have just as easily all ended up playing at Letcher, coming out of grade school.

[HDE]

I can't believe anyone thinks "the other guy is doing it, too" argument has any merit.

Does that ever work when you get stopped for speeding and you were passed by three other cars.

Do you think the judge would drop the charges if you told him that "Yes, I shot four people, but the guy across the street shot two, so you should have arrested him, too."

 

I don't buy the "making the community proud" argument either. You bring in a bunch of guys from all over the country just to play basketball and somehow that is supposed to make the community feel good about themselves when their kids can't even make the team anymore.

[JokersWild24]

I can't believe anyone thinks "the other guy is doing it, too" argument has any merit.

Does that ever work when you get stopped for speeding and you were passed by three other cars.

Do you think the judge would drop the charges if you told him that "Yes, I shot four people, but the guy across the street shot two, so you should have arrested him, too."

 

I don't buy the "making the community proud" argument either. You bring in a bunch of guys from all over the country just to play basketball and somehow that is supposed to make the community feel good about themselves when their kids can't even make the team anymore.

 

That's life though. If you don't perform well at your job, you'll be replaced. The kids that come can push the local kids to make the most of their talents just as easily.

 

If kids want to apply for Med School at UK one day, they do so knowing that "but, I'm from Kentucky and the applicant with a higher GPA and MCAT score than me is from Tennessee so I deserve it more" argument will only take them so far.

 

Kids from Cordia were still on the team and still played roles. Look at Combs and Cornett. I'm guessing that the team wanted the best players and wouldn't have cared at all if their main contributors ended up being kids that were local.

 

Yes, it can get too cutthroat, but I don't see what they were doing in that sense as being THAT different than a school that brings in a kid from two counties (or a few states) over that knocks a local kid down the depth chart and knocks another local kid out of their seat at the end of the bench. I also think it's fair to say that the Cordia community at large seemed to embrace the concept of what they were trying to do.

[JokersWild24]

I was basing my comment on Rod's statement of not having to worry about losing to Knott again this season. Justice was an eighth grader when he came to Knott so he could have enrolled anywhere. Letcher blew the whole deal when they let Raymond go. He would probably have had B.B. as his assistant and the other three could have just as easily all ended up playing at Letcher, coming out of grade school.

 

So if a school hires 10 new assistants, all of them having sons leaving 8th grade and ranked as the top 10 incoming freshman in the nation, then that's fine. It just violates the spirit of the rule, not the black letter law?

 

That seems to be something that would follow from that line of thinking.

 

I think it's fair to say Cunningham's transfer was far more scrutinized by the public than Justice's, but each had a Dad taking a new job as an assistant. Cunningham had transferred more and came as a senior while Justice hadn't moved around as much (or moved since), and he was an 8th grader.

 

Both seem like good kids who have their priorities in line and will be playing at the next level at a highly regarded academic institution, so I say good for both of them.

[JokersWild24]

I can't believe anyone thinks "the other guy is doing it, too" argument has any merit.

Does that ever work when you get stopped for speeding and you were passed by three other cars.

Do you think the judge would drop the charges if you told him that "Yes, I shot four people, but the guy across the street shot two, so you should have arrested him, too."

 

I don't buy the "making the community proud" argument either. You bring in a bunch of guys from all over the country just to play basketball and somehow that is supposed to make the community feel good about themselves when their kids can't even make the team anymore.

 

 

I think there's a fair argument to be made for the "other guys are doing it too" avenue when you distinguish from the actual violation that occurs and the penalty/sentencing/punishment that is imposed.

 

No, it doesn't mean that you weren't guilty, but it doesn't look equitable to see one person have an anvil dropped on them when another gets a slap on the wrist for the same conduct.

 

Taking what you'd said to an extreme would be like saying that an officer writes a ticket for 50% of the cars he sees speeding, but when he or she decides on a punishment, they seek a $50,000 fine for any red car that's speeding but only a $500 fine for cars of any other color and that's the sole basis for their punishment.

 

We don't know what Cordia may or may not allege. They could theoretically admit to everything they've been accused of but base their whole theory on an inequitable punishment being sought for those actions given past history of similar cases.

 

I'm not saying the KHSAA is arbitrarily enforcing the rules against Cordia because there's obviously been what someone could reasonably infer to be a pattern of behavior on their behalf; I'm just saying that I think there is validity to the "other guy is doing it too" argument if they can show that over time, schools haven't been punished as harshly for similar occurrences.

[CKSportsFan]

I think there's a fair argument to be made for the "other guys are doing it too" avenue when you distinguish from the actual violation that occurs and the penalty/sentencing/punishment that is imposed.

 

No, it doesn't mean that you weren't guilty, but it doesn't look equitable to see one person have an anvil dropped on them when another gets a slap on the wrist for the same conduct.

 

Taking what you'd said to an extreme would be like saying that an officer writes a ticket for 50% of the cars he sees speeding, but when he or she decides on a punishment, they seek a $50,000 fine for any red car that's speeding but only a $500 fine for cars of any other color and that's the sole basis for their punishment.

 

We don't know what Cordia may or may not allege. They could theoretically admit to everything they've been accused of but base their whole theory on an inequitable punishment being sought for those actions given past history of similar cases.

 

I'm not saying the KHSAA is arbitrarily enforcing the rules against Cordia because there's obviously been what someone could reasonably infer to be a pattern of behavior on their behalf; I'm just saying that I think there is validity to the "other guy is doing it too" argument if they can show that over time, schools haven't been punished as harshly for similar occurrences.

 

 

There's a difference between going 75 in a 55 several times a year (what some believe Ballard, Scott County, the Catholic schools) and doing 120 in a 55 EVERY DAY (what Cordia did in a 2-year span).

 

Who do you think is more likely to get arrested and get the book thrown at them?

[JokersWild24]

There's a difference between going 75 in a 55 several times a year (what some believe Ballard, Scott County, the Catholic schools) and doing 120 in a 55 EVERY DAY (what Cordia did in a 2-year span).

 

Who do you think is more likely to get arrested and get the book thrown at them?

 

But that's completely inapplicable to the bolded statement that you quoted me on (sorry for nitpicking at semantics though):

 

"I'm just saying that I think there is validity to the "other guy is doing it too" argument if they can show that over time, schools haven't been punished as harshly for similar occurrences."

 

Semantically, I was saying that if Cordia was doing 120 in a 55 every day (in a 2 year span) and had the book thrown at them but they could prove that a similar occurrence where Schools X, Y, and Z were doing 120 in a 55 every day in a 2-year span but got off easier.

 

I know that may or may not be assuming a lot, but that was the only point I was trying to make there.

 

Basically, if you can prove that you and 5 other people did the same or highly similar things, but you were the only one that got severely punished, then the "others are doing it too" argument has some merit.