Creationism

[kygirl]

Why do other planets need water or oxygen for there to be life?

 

If it were not for the tremendous amounts of water on the earth, far greater day and night temperature variations would exist. Many parts of the surface would be hot enough to boil water during the day, and the same parts would be cold enough to freeze water at night. Because water is an excellent temperature stabilizer, the large oceans on earth are vital for life to exist on earth. Water is of major importance to all living things; in some organisms, up to 90% of their body weight comes from water. Up to 60% of the human adult body is water. According to H.H. Mitchell, Journal of Biological Chemistry 158, the brain and heart are composed of 73% water, and the lungs are about 83% water. The skin contains 64% water, muscles and kidneys are 79%, and even the bones are watery: 31%. Each day humans must consume a certain amount of water to survive. Of course, this varies according to age and gender, and also by where someone lives. Generally, an adult male needs about 3 liters per day while an adult female needs about 2.2 liters per day.

 

The air close to the earth's surface is heated by light energy from the sun, and after the air is warmed it becomes less dense and rises upward. The result is that the air near the earth's surface maintains a temperature in which life can exist. If air contracted when heated and became denser, the temperature on the earth's surface would become unbearable, and most life could not survive for very long. The temperature a few hundred feet above the surface, on the other hand, would be extremely cold, and most life could also not exist there for very long. The only habitable region would be a thin slice of air, but even here life could not exist for long because the plants and trees necessary to support life in the atmosphere could not survive, as they would be in the cold zone. Birds would have no resting place or food, water, or oxygen. But because air on the earth's surface rises when heated, life can exist on earth.

Edited April 9, 2014 by kygirl
More info

[Getslow]

Why do other planets need water or oxygen for there to be life?

 

As kygirl said, there are reasons we look for water (as well as oxygen and nitrogen gas) when we search for extrasolar planets that might contain life. There could certainly be life that is, for example, silicon-based and can live in vast seas of liquid carbon dioxide... but we don't have any idea what that kind of life might look like and so there's really no way for us to seek it out given our current technology.

[doubledeuce]

Why do we assume that other life forms on other planets need water, they could have developed in a entirely different way? Sorry to get off topic.

[kygirl]

Why do we assume that other life forms on other planets need water, they could have developed in a entirely different way? Sorry to get off topic.

Not off topic at all. Getslow said it best see post #62.

Matthew 19:26 (NIV)

26 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

[The Professor]

I realize you are adding to the discussion but this response is "all over the place."

 

I will ask you too, if there is an intelligent designer, who designed him or her?

I've asked the same question many times over the years, and although many try to do their best to come up with an answer, I've never heard one that makes any sense to me.

[Bengal Maniac]

Guru on this I am with you on I have never heard anything that makes sense beyond faith, which is fine. Faith, as stated before, is something we all have in something and every day. Faith that my kids will wake up in the morning, faith that the store I walk in won't have an attacker come in and start shooting people. Faith that there is a God and that there is eternal life for whatever the specific religion claims. But there are no guarantees in any of these that I can tell. I then must ask. If I have faith there is a God, then I will have eternal life, if I accept Jesus Christ as my savior? If not I will be dust shortly after death. I believe that is what people that have faith in God are dealing with. Is the Bible the Word of God or just great teachings and examples of ways to live your life? Humans wrote them and decided what would be included and not and all humans are fallible. But I see no guarantees, because there are none, in my mind. I am more of the mindset to believe there is a God, but I will never be able to guarantee anyone there is. It is an individual decision, therefore, and the consequences, if there are any, was the individual's choice.

 

The only problem I have is telling me that if I don't believe I am destined to hell. Don't judge me on my religious or non-religious beliefs. No human is the judge for my destiny after death. I will respect what decision you make and always have, because you not me or anyone else have the choice and there is no hard evidence in anything concerning God.

 

So is creationism valid or science? I have no clue and have resigned myself to think I never will. My mind tells me science makes more sense, but I am no where near an authority on either, thus my constant confusion.

[Randy Parker]

I've never heard one that makes any sense to me.

 

There's a reason for that. It's impossible for finite humans to comprehend that someone or something is self existent, but that has to be the case with our origin. At some point there has to be an uncaused cause. Something or someone started it all & that something or someone did not have a born on date. Something or someone was always there.

 

As I see it, there is faith required regardless of what one chooses to believe about our origin.

[Jumper_Dad]

The only problem I have is telling me that if I don't believe I am destined to hell. Don't judge me on my religious or non-religious beliefs. No human is the judge for my destiny after death. I will respect what decision you make and always have, because you not me or anyone else have the choice and there is no hard evidence in anything concerning God.

First Bolded...you are 100% correct no man is the judge for your destiny, no Christian will disagree with that.

 

Second Bolded...That's why it is called Faith...John 20:29 says...Then Jesus told him, "You believe because you have seen me. Blessed are those who believe without seeing me."

[Bluegrasscard]

You are wrong on your first point, I was asking a honest question.

 

And if Creationism always boils down to "faith in scriptural revelations and religious tradition" then I have my answer.

 

Once you accept the possibility life beyond earth, especially 'advanced/superior life' then you have to ask are we (humans) their creation? This is the premise of the movie Protheseus. And they call the alien creators - Engineers.

 

This would not nullify the existence of a God - but it puts a potential intermediary in the way.

 

If you expand the 'alien as human race creator' to the entire earth then there is a possible integration of the intelligent designer theory and the changes in species that we call 'natural evolution'. Without a doubt species have changed on earth. We have seen the little horse and the stages of the horse that apparently lead to the modern horse. There are fossil records. The problem is that the fossil record shows specific species - not a continuum of 'ongoing evolution'. This is one of the issues with standard 'evolution' theory.

 

'Natural evolution' does have another name - genetic mutation. The problem is that natural genetic mutations are almost always a defect and the mutation does not usually reproduce going forward. 'Nature' does not experiment and 'try new things', it usually purges the defect. However, if an external 'genetic engineer' makes the change it will be with a purpose and will go forward. And even today we can see examples of a superior species 'playing god' through genetic engineering - it is us. We, as a species are altering other species. Natural evolution that actually converts or significantly modifies a species has not been scientifically observed - but human directed 'evolution' that does just this has.

[dolamite]

Getting to the party late, but since I have touched on this topic in other threads I'll try to put a couple of thoughts out there.....

 

 

 

Like most have said, Creationism obviously calls for a supreme being or creator. I believe in this type of Creationism although I think the Ken Hamm's of the world are total morons. Obviously the Earth is older than 6,000 years old so guys like that ruin it for anyone else who may view the universe was "created". Most can just poke fun and ridicule because they can be like, "those idiots think the world is only 6,000 years old? They obviously don't understand "science". Well like I said, creationism can be more than that. In my view the universe was set into motion by a supreme being and possibly as long as millions and millions of years ago. There are just way too many "coincidences" in our world for everything to just be total chance, it obviously looks designed to me. Every cycle, every process, designed perfectly. I don't think this is just by random chance and progress.

 

Furthermore about the ole Science/God debate. I don't get it? Why does Science have to be in opposition of God? To me God is Science, science is just a way to explain God IMO. Even Darwin himself in the last page of his book said that his findings and opinions were not in any way meant to take away from the power of God. I think you can still believe in God and Evolution, again I think you can apply science to a lot of things in relation to God.

 

 

Also I've noticed a lot of, well who made God? This one is tricky, it's tough to know for sure. However, my thoughts are this. We are not the highest forms of life in this existence, there are higher spiritual beings than us humans (although humans think they are the end all be all). Who's to say that our God is just a super advanced being? Perhaps there are other Gods who have other universes or other creations aside from what God has created here. I can't help but to think of the Men In Black movies in which K had the little race of Aliens in the locker, they worshiped him as God because that is what they knew. So for example we as humans became advanced enough to create our own life forms, wouldn't we be that life forms God? If there is a possibility of having more intelligent life out there who's to say there's only one possible God even though I believe there is only one God for us? Who's to say that "God" isn't just a part of some super advanced race of beings whether it be spiritual or what. I mean who's to say really? People only look for answers in the context of our little simple human world (in which we feel is so complex), in reality we are nothing. Just a grain of sand in all the worlds beaches, the human race is nothing compared to the universe. To me there just has to be more out there, and we are not the highest forms of being, far from it.

 

 

 

This may get a little crazy right here and I may take some flack for it, but physics are starting to prove the existence of up to 11-12 known dimensions. We only experience four as humans (3D + 4th dimension of time). So what is going on in the other 7-8? For thousands of years Shamans, Yogis, etc, have claimed to venture into these worlds (the spirit worlds) and it is rather fascinating. My point is just because we cannot see, smell, touch, hear, taste in our known world doesn't mean it cannot exist outside of our world. Again there are numerous dimensions that exist that we do not have the capabilities to even access. Those who claim they can state that they encounter "divine realms" and realms of things that exist outside of what we know as a normal world. Things that are just mind boggling and crazy, and the funny thing is it may be for real. Science and more less physics have came a long way in trying to uncover this. If you get time research the alternate dimensions and substances such as DMT (produced in our own brain and present in almost every living organism) and their effects/experiences of those who took the substance.

 

So I guess what I am trying to say is we cannot look at things from the constraints of our only known dimension, science is starting to prove what the Shamans and Yogis have said for a while, that there is way more out there even if we cannot access it at all times.

 

 

 

 

 

There's just a lot of stuff you can get into in this argument, no one can ever prove anything 100% but you can say that about anything not just God. For me, it's just waaaaaay too much out there for it to just be chance. Something more powerful, more divine, more than me set it in motion. It didn't just happen because some dust exploded and some algae evolved into everything we know now. There was something way more in play and it is powerful and working in our universe every second of every day.

[theguru]

a lot of things take faith. The kid that jumps off of the side if the pool to their dad had faith that their dad will catch them.

 

You had faith that if you needed help that backup was on the way.

 

As an agnostic I would think you would be open to both sides of the discussion as agnostics readily admit they aren't sure if God does or doesn't exist.

 

But I don't think anyone can make a post and convince you God exist, that is a personal decision that you will or will not come to on your own. That said I will be praying that you get the answer you need, my friend.

 

I am not asking for proof so that I believe, I am asking what makes so many people believe, and the answer appears to be Faith, nothing more, nothing less. And that is okay.

 

For me being Agnostic means that "God" can neither be proven or dis-proven and that either is possible.

[theguru]

Well, sorry. I just have a hard time rationalizing the fact that we are the result a gazillion-billion random possibilities all happening in just the right way, at just the right time, to form life as we know it today from just two atoms colliding. The example that was shared to me was meant to show the fact that if even if you know you have all the right parts, you still have to have some idea of how to put them together in order to get a "working" object.

 

So, do you believe that we are all here today just because the all the dominoes lined up and fell in just the right way?

 

Yes, but by no means do I feel certain of it.

[theguru]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Earth where we live is unique. The Earth as a planet consists mostly of oxygen, iron, sulfur, silicon, magnesium, aluminum, calcium, hydrogen, and nickel (total: 98%), with the other two percent consisting of about a hundred other elements. Like no other planet, ours is covered with green vegetation, enormous blue-green oceans containing over a million islands, hundreds of thousands of streams and rivers, huge land masses called continents, mountains, ice caps, and deserts that produce a spectacular variety of color and texture. Except for occasional violent catastrophes, all other known planets are covered with lifeless soil or gas that varies only according to slight movements made by wind or mild air currents. Completely barren, the surface of most planets is totally in contrast to the Earth's lively colors--its bright greens, blues, and whites--whereas the surface of all other known rockey planets are rather dull gray and brown often covered with a thick atmosphere.

 

The Earth is the only known planet with huge bodies of water--70% of its surface area consists of oceans, lakes, and seas surrounding huge bodies of land. The few planets that have water contain only moisture floating as vapor on their surface or small amounts of ice or liquid water on the planet itself, not large bodies of liquid water as on Earth.

 

If there are are any other Earth's in the universe, it is unlikely that any of them could have life due to the extremely rigid conditions required for life to exist.

 

Yes, I agree that a lot of my answer was Faith based. I choose to believe that our brain was created by God, that prompts me to use my brain to understand His purpose for His creation(me). This was, after all, the conclusion of no less than Isaac Newton, a creationist, and, arguably, the greatest of all scientists, who declared that we had been created "to think God's thoughts after Him."

 

I agree, we are way way off on how we feel about other planets in the Universe. I guess you could say I have faith there are many other Earth like planets.

[theguru]

As kygirl said, there are reasons we look for water (as well as oxygen and nitrogen gas) when we search for extrasolar planets that might contain life. There could certainly be life that is, for example, silicon-based and can live in vast seas of liquid carbon dioxide... but we don't have any idea what that kind of life might look like and so there's really no way for us to seek it out given our current technology.

 

We are starting to do that little by little. Again, I am not an expert but we are starting to study Exoplanet signatures that show their composition.

[theguru]

If it isn't humanly possible to get to the end of our universe then there could be a universe similar to this one couldn't it?

 

If the sun is a star then isn't possible that all stars have an earth-like planet with life orbiting it?

 

 

 

I'm intrigued by this discussion and I have always been afraid to have it because when you are a person of faith these questions can be considered to be questioning God which is a no-no in most religions.

 

Our Universe may be just one of billions and billions. Think of kernels of corn on a cob.