Creationism

[nkypete]

I realize you are adding to the discussion but this response is "all over the place."

 

I will ask you too, if there is an intelligent designer, who designed him or her?

 

I am not a Christian/Catholic apologetic, but I know where to look to find someone who can state a position better than me. Here's an answer to your question.

 

Who Created God? | Catholic Answers

[Randy Parker]

So who designed the Intelligent Designer?

 

And generally speaking plate tectonics explains Mount Rushmore.

 

Plate tectonics carved the faces of 4 Presidents into the side of a mountain?

[theguru]

I had not thought about it exactly that way before, BigV, but I like it. Here's one that I've heard someone else use...

 

Take an ordinary wristwatch. One that works, and tells time accurately. Now, take it apart, piece by piece. And put every bit of it into a bag. Every gear, every hand, every dial, every spring, every screw...everything that makes up that watch...gets put into the bag.

 

Now, you KNOW you have everything you need to make a watch...because you just took it apart. But, instead of having a plan to put it back together, you're going to leave it to randomness, and let the parts come together on their own...so you just shake the bag. Doesn't become a watch after a few shakes? Then shake it some more. And some more. And...you get the idea. But, it's never going to become a watch again, no matter how long you shake it, is it? No. Because there has to be a design in mind, for each and every little piece.

 

To expect that shear randomness has led us to all the living things at this point in time...to me, requires an inexplicably larger amount of faith than does creation.

 

I am not trying to be demeaning but if that is anyone's test there is no sense in "that person" and I ever discussing anything.

[theguru]

Thanks Cincy. After reading yours, I think I like it even better than mine and might just steal it.

 

Stick with yours, trust me.

[theguru]

I hate this. This is a discussion designed to place science and faith in opposition to one another, a framing I absolute loathe.

 

There is ABSOLUTELY NO ARGUMENT one can make in favor of creationism that doesn't ultimately boil down to faith in scriptural revelations and religious tradition. You can apply elements of logic and those particular arguments can be perfectly sound, but it isn't science and in the end, you're electing to accept and believe in an account that we have essentially zero scientific evidence to support. AND THAT'S FINE.

 

By the same token, accepting the basic tenets of evolution and the billions-of-years old universe IS NOT FAITH. It is an acceptance of the overwhelming mountain of evidence for how the universe as we know it came to be. For those of a scientific bent, "I don't know" is a perfectly acceptable answer to any question.

 

What happened before the Big Bang? I don't know.

 

But I do know that simply saying "Well that's where God comes in" is a two-fold poor answer. 1) It's a scientific cop-out and just plugs in God to the places where we don't have any real understanding, essentially erecting an artificial stopping point beyond which science is to have no place. 2) It does a great disservice to God by making Him seem small and putting him in some little box. The "God of the gaps" concept is as useless to religion as it is to science.

 

You are wrong on your first point, I was asking a honest question.

 

And if Creationism always boils down to "faith in scriptural revelations and religious tradition" then I have my answer.

[theguru]

Plate tectonics carved the faces of 4 Presidents into the side of a mountain?

 

I was thinking God had a sense of humor.

[theguru]

I am not a Christian/Catholic apologetic, but I know where to look to find someone who can state a position better than me. Here's an answer to your question.

 

Who Created God? | Catholic Answers

 

Gosh I hate to be negative but that reads like every other religions article/book I have ever looked at that tries to tackle any tough questions. It sounds like some fast talking salesperson. In other words, it falls flat on its face.

[Jumper_Dad]

In my best Darth Vader voice, " Your lack of faith is disturbing"

[theguru]

In my best Darth Vader voice, " Your lack of faith is disturbing"

 

In a kind voice, to you, not to me.

[kypride]

Well Guru this is a non starter then. If you don't believe in GOD then of couse you cant believe in creationism! Why ask the question and then exclude faith in God in the answers? Duh, it would be a logical non starter.

[nkypete]

Gosh I hate to be negative but that reads like every other religions article/book I have ever looked at that tries to tackle any tough questions. It sounds like some fast talking salesperson. In other words, it falls flat on its face.

 

Main point is that God exists out of time and does not need further explanation.

 

God is infinite or not limited.

1. God is omnipresent - God is not limited to a certain space.

2. God is eternal - God is not limited by time. He has always been here and He always will be here.

3. God is all knowing - Because God knows everything, we can trust that God knows what is good for us.

4. God is omnipotent - God is all powerful. God can do whatever God wants to do.

5. God does not change - God's nature and His purpose will always be the same.

[Jumper_Dad]

To steal from a movie...if God created everything as the Bible says and said " Let there be light" don't you imagine it would look exactly like the Big Bang.

 

God, science and creation don't disprove each other but IMO do more to confirm each other

[theguru]

Well Guru this is a non starter then. If you don't believe in GOD then of couse you cant believe in creationism! Why ask the question and then exclude faith in God in the answers? Duh, it would be a logical non starter.

 

First, contrary to popular belief, I am very open-minded.

 

Second, if faith is the only answer, and it sure appears that way, that is all anyone has to say. I am cool with that.

[theguru]

To steal from a movie...if God created everything as the Bible says and said " Let there be light" don't you imagine it would look exactly like the Big Bang.

 

God, science and creation don't disprove each other but IMO do more to confirm each other

 

Only if you have faith.

[Jumper_Dad]

Not sure what you are looking for... if all you want is scientific Proof...it doesn't exist to 100% certainty... you disregard any response that includes God or intelligent design. Not sure what your looking for.

 

Are you agnostic or atheist or something else.