The Two Platoon System

[jpa2825]

Don't forget the impact of a two platoon system on building a program. Instead of 50 kids competing for 19 or 20 spots, if 4 or 5 kids play both ways, you have 25 kids competing for 11 spots. If you count rotations at positions, those 11 spots are maybe 15 or 16 spots.

[CoachJ]

At what level should coaches stop worrying about preparing players for the next level?

 

I understand the gist of this question...but we actually try to do BOTH at Ballard -- the key is that we do NOT do them at the same time. Let me explain.

 

During the off-season, the things we plan and structure as coaches are about 95% toward developing our guys as INDIVIDUALS -- better speed, quickness, agility, toughness, body weight, leadership, etc. Those just so happen to be the EXACT things that will get them evaluated by colleges REGARDLESS of whether they're a running back or a defensive back...and actually, it'll be what they're evaluated on where it matters probably most -- at Spring and Summer college CAMPS and COMBINES (NOT so much based on their HS films). We will have 'team-days' where pretty much everybody is expected to be there, but we'll also stay on the other 3 days of the school-week for kids that want more instruction or 'push' in the areas above they want to improve (including technique/mental work for certain players like quarterbacks, receivers, db's, etc.)

 

Then, once the first day of practice comes, the focus becomes about 99% on THE TEAM.

 

If they (or their parents) think their best chance for them to play at the next level is at Linebacker as opposed to DB, that's what the off-season is for. We tell them when we get back in January what they will need to do to play the position WE think they should play and what they'd need to do to maybe play another position (e.g., get .1 faster in the 40, gain/lose 10lbs., etc.). We then lay out a plan for them as to what they should be doing on a weekly basis for the entire off-season to get them where they want to be.

 

Once the first day of practice comes, they've either done or haven't done what was needed. At that point, we will let them TRY the position they want (or their parents think is their best position for 'next level'). IF they're the BEST ON THE TEAM at that position, that's what they'll play. COMPETITION within the team in the first 4 weeks of practice is what ultimately determine who plays where. Some adjustments may have to be made later based on game performance, injuries, strengths of district teams, etc.

 

If they're FAR AND AWAY the best at one position AND at a position on the other side of the ball, we may determine they will need to play both for the good of the team (we try to limit that to only 5 or 6 kids on the varsity).

 

So, in the OFF-SEASON, we are open to them doing whatever is necessary to play a position other than what we think might be best. We'll even spend extra time HELPING them become that. It can be about 'INDIVIDUALS' more in the off-season.

 

But IN-SEASON, there is ONE and ONLY ONE factor we use when making a decision on who plays where and how much (and which plays we run, what defensive attack we employ, etc., etc.) -- that is, what's best for the success of the TEAM.

[75center]

At what level should coaches stop worrying about preparing players for the next level?

 

Never as you phrase it, however the topic was at the expense of wins. If they can develop them while not costing the team, go for it.

[Voice of Reason]

I understand the gist of this question...but we actually try to do BOTH at Ballard -- the key is that we do NOT do them at the same time. Let me explain.

 

During the off-season, the things we plan and structure as coaches are about 95% toward developing our guys as INDIVIDUALS -- better speed, quickness, agility, toughness, body weight, leadership, etc. Those just so happen to be the EXACT things that will get them evaluated by colleges REGARDLESS of whether they're a running back or a defensive back...and actually, it'll be what they're evaluated on where it matters probably most -- at Spring and Summer college CAMPS and COMBINES (NOT so much based on their HS films). We will have 'team-days' where pretty much everybody is expected to be there, but we'll also stay on the other 3 days of the school-week for kids that want more instruction or 'push' in the areas above they want to improve (including technique/mental work for certain players like quarterbacks, receivers, db's, etc.)

 

Then, once the first day of practice comes, the focus becomes about 99% on THE TEAM.

 

If they (or their parents) think their best chance for them to play at the next level is at Linebacker as opposed to DB, that's what the off-season is for. We tell them when we get back in January what they will need to do to play the position WE think they should play and what they'd need to do to maybe play another position (e.g., get .1 faster in the 40, gain/lose 10lbs., etc.). We then lay out a plan for them as to what they should be doing on a weekly basis for the entire off-season to get them where they want to be.

 

Once the first day of practice comes, they've either done or haven't done what was needed. At that point, we will let them TRY the position they want (or their parents think is their best position for 'next level'). IF they're the BEST ON THE TEAM at that position, that's what they'll play. COMPETITION within the team in the first 4 weeks of practice is what ultimately determine who plays where. Some adjustments may have to be made later based on game performance, injuries, strengths of district teams, etc.

 

If they're FAR AND AWAY the best at one position AND at a position on the other side of the ball, we may determine they will need to play both for the good of the team (we try to limit that to only 5 or 6 kids on the varsity).

 

So, in the OFF-SEASON, we are open to them doing whatever is necessary to play a position other than what we think might be best. We'll even spend extra time HELPING them become that. It can be about 'INDIVIDUALS' more in the off-season.

 

But IN-SEASON, there is ONE and ONLY ONE factor we use when making a decision on who plays where and how much (and which plays we run, what defensive attack we employ, etc., etc.) -- that is, what's best for the success of the TEAM.

 

Excellent job nailing this thread down Coach!! :thumb:

[Ram]

The position a player plays in high school has minimal impact on what he will play in college and whether he gets a scholarship. College coaches look at size, speed, strength, agility and pure athletic ability and then put the player where he thinks he fits. Here are two recent examples. Miles Simpson is now going to play safety despite all the "showcasing" and highlight reel footage of him at RB. Trevon Brown is being targeted as a center. Has he ever played center in football? These D1 coaches size their players up and play them where they think they fit. IMO two platoon football has zero impact on recruiting at the next level.

Exactly. I know QB's that colleges wanted to be WR's, LB's that ended up playing DL, and the list goes on. I have spoke with some college coaches that don't recruit OT's, they recruit all TE's and the best play TE and the rest become OT. I have also talked to some coaches that don't recruit DE's, the recruit all LB's and convert some to DE. A "Player" will show his ability no matter where he is played in high school.

[Clyde]

Seems to me like both can be accomplished at the same time .

 

Possibly but the priority should be on fielding the best team.

 

There was a team in Cincinnati/Middletown a few years ago who had 2 very good QBs. One got moved to TE because the team would be better . He and his dad were upset with the coach because they wanted to get looks at qb.

 

What should the coach do in that situation?

[HIGHLANDS GUY]

Possibly but the priority should be on fielding the best team.

 

There was a team in Cincinnati/Middletown a few years ago who had 2 very good QBs. One got moved to TE because the team would be better . He and his dad were upset with the coach because they wanted to get looks at qb.

 

What should the coach do in that situation?

 

What should the parent do in that situation?

[HIGHLANDS GUY]

Couldn't disagree more. If a team gives up wins in order for a coach to develop the one player to play at the next level, he should be fired.

 

Totally agree..

 

No great shock.

[tcjkbt]

What should the parent do in that situation?

 

Use that opportunity to teach the kid some valuable lessons about life.

[Clyde]

What should the parent do in that situation?

 

Well the parent has a couple of choices. He can pull his kid and go to a different school or he can roll with it. As CoachJ explained there are chances to be seen in the summer if a scholarship is his #1 priority.

[hoosierbirdfan]

Possibly but the priority should be on fielding the best team.

 

There was a team in Cincinnati/Middletown a few years ago who had 2 very good QBs. One got moved to TE because the team would be better . He and his dad were upset with the coach because they wanted to get looks at qb.

 

What should the coach do in that situation?

 

Of course I'm not a coach , nor have I ever been one , but if I was the coach , I would field the best team possible . Then I would talk to the parents and explain to them why I did what I did , and hope that they understand .

 

Suppose Patrick Towles goes to August two a days and finds out that he is being moved to tight end , to make the team better ? How would you think his parents would react ? If you were the coach Clyde , how would you explain to the parents that their son is being moved to tight end ? (.......and you can't blame it on the kool-aid )

 

REMEMBER THIS IS A HYPOTHETICAL QUESTION !!!

Edited December 28, 2010 by rockmom
fixed quote

[hoosierbirdfan]

I also forgot to add that McCoy is a very good QB. Please don't ask me to compare Towles and McCoy , because I won't ! I will say they are both very good athletes as well as QB 's !

[HIGHLANDS GUY]

Well the parent has a couple of choices. He can pull his kid and go to a different school or he can roll with it. As CoachJ explained there are chances to be seen in the summer if a scholarship is his #1 priority.

 

There was HS soccer team that had 2 division one keepers that were one year apart. The parents of the younger player decided to send that player to another school where the keeper started, thrived and earned a scholarship. I think it would be hard to argue that the parents didn't make the correct decision. I am not sure what valuable "lesson about life" would have been served by keeping the player in the former siuation.

 

It is easy to think these questions are pretty black and white and throw out cliche responses, but honestly there is lots of gray.

 

I think this team vs. individual debate has little to do with the topic at hand, but it is one I find interesting.

[jpa2825]

Possibly but the priority should be on fielding the best team.

 

There was a team in Cincinnati/Middletown a few years ago who had 2 very good QBs. One got moved to TE because the team would be better . He and his dad were upset with the coach because they wanted to get looks at qb.

 

What should the coach do in that situation?

 

Didn't Will Bardo's older brother face a similar situation his Sr. season? I seem to recall him making the shift from QB to TE because the Coach told him it would make the team better and he wanted to do what was best for the team. I think they may have won a state championship that year.

[hoosierbirdfan]

This thread has gone far away from the original question , but thats ok with me , if it's ok with the mods .