The Private advantage - A new perspective

[Tubby's Best Friend]

Private school sympathizers here seem to use the numbers stated in the article as proof that privates don't have an advantage over the last 20 years. When if you look at them honestly, 17% of the schools (Privates) won 35.6% of the championships in the past 20 years.

 

If you are going to use the numbers to bolster your argument that there is not some advantage to private schools athletically, then at least give us something concrete to show us why they are winning a disproportionate amount of titles, not just say "see there" over 20 years they haven't won that many titles. When truth told for 17% of the schools to win nearly 36% of the titles over 20 years IS pretty substantial.

 

The article should have shown what the trend was over the last 10 years and see if it is in fact something that is clearly on the rise. Which in my opinion, when you have 17% of the schools winning 55% of the titles as they did last year, that probably is the case.

[BigStud]

Private school sympathizers here seem to use the numbers stated in the article as proof that privates don't have an advantage over the last 20 years. When if you look at them honestly, 17% of the schools (Privates) won 35.6% of the championships in the past 20 years.

 

If you are going to use the numbers to bolster your argument that there is not some advantage to private schools athletically, then at least give us something concrete to show us why they are winning a disproportionate amount of titles, not just say "see there" over 20 years they haven't won that many titles. When truth told for 17% of the schools to win nearly 36% of the titles over 20 years IS pretty substantial.

 

The article should have shown what the trend was over the last 10 years and see if it is in fact something that is clearly on the rise. Which in my opinion, when you have 17% of the schools winning 55% of the titles as they did last year, that probably is the case.

 

 

I have a question for you. Name me a sport on any level where a few programs usually are not the cream of the crop?

[bulldog77]

runningref your commentary is splendid. Tubby'sbest friend have you seen the Herald Leader article in another thread here? 11 schools hold the VAST majority of state titles in football over the last decade. Only THREE are private. Only two, both in class 4A are clearly dominant over that span. Do we now kick out Beechwood, Highlands and Danville because the number CLEARLY show that they have a disproportionate number of championships (be they district, sectional or what have you, it doesn't matter in the least) in the singular sport of football.

 

The argument of disproportionate winning is petty and misleading. As BigStud intimates, there will ALWAYS be programs that are consistently ahead of the pack for myriad reasons. To lay the problem at the feet of private schools in the face of disparities like total enrollment, open enrollment and independent districts who CHOOSE to accept or deny out of district transfers is ridiculous and clearly vindictive.

 

ladiesballcoach, while I respect your passion on the subject I have no choice but to disagree on the basic principle as it is applied here. Selective persecution is NOT the way to deal with the small, KNOWN problems of illegal recruitment etc. that have prompted this feud. And using SELECTIVE STATISTICS to prove one's point goes back to snake oil salesmen and carpet baggers. Of course the proponents of this mess would LOVE to limit the discussion to the last ten years. But anyone who deals with statistics or even history knows about that little word, "trends." Anyone remember some 25 years ago when we wewre all wondering if anyone outside of Jefferson County would ever win another state basketball title (PRP, Ballard, Male, et al)? Remember the small but vocal minority of people pushing to have the Jefferson County Schools have their "own state title?" I sure do, and it is eerily similar in my mind to this current debate. Current rules already on the KHSAA books, IF ENFORCED, deal with any and all circumstances being cited as problems now quite nicely. In addition, competition for students is REAL WORLD (just ask anyone in Oldham County), and God forbid we involve students in real world scenarios, right?

[oldschoolwrestler]

I would hope that most do not think that prop 20 is the correct answer, but what others need to realize is that more regulation is needed.

 

In my opinion prop 1 has some possibilities but not passed as it is now. I have heard some say, give every school district a 20 mile radius, as long as there are agreements with other school districts.

 

I would say try this first and see what happens. I thing this would blow up, and cause poor school districts to loose students. (this is not what we are trying to accomplish)

 

I have said it before and will say it agian. IMO the only true way to solve this problem is to get rid of compulsery education.

 

What all of this has done is brought the problem out into the spotlight. Maybe greater minds than ours will be able to find a real solution to the problem without hurting either public or private schools.

 

Fortunatly or unfortunatly, depending on where you stand on this issue. LBC is correct. Those who look at this issue will look more at district and regional titles. I know the issue has been brought out as state title issue, but it goes much deeper than that.

 

Maybe this issue will force the KHSAA to look more closely at classes. I think only football and track are the only class sports in KY, but that is another argument.

[oldschoolwrestler]

I have a question for you. Name me a sport on any level where a few programs usually are not the cream of the crop?

 

This is usually related to a coach or coaching staff. When that coach leaves the program then it usually declines.

 

Is it because the private schools have better coaches, even after a legend coach leaves? This may be true in football (since that is the focus of this issue), but in most sports IMO I don't think so. (Sorry if I offended anyone)

[All Tell]

This is usually related to a coach or coaching staff. When that coach leaves the program then it usually declines.

I have one school for you that dispells this.

 

Highlands

 

How many different coaches have won championships there.

[oldschoolwrestler]

I have one school for you that dispells this.

 

Highlands

 

How many different coaches have won championships there.

 

There are exceptions to every rule.

 

I made that statement as a general statement.

[ladiesbballcoach]

I have one school for you that dispells this.

 

Highlands

 

How many different coaches have won championships there.

I believe that would be one public school out of 232. Possible but not the rule. You cannot set a system in which one school out of 232 is having success.

[All Tell]

No but it is an example of a public school program that has great community backing, great academics and great athletics. In other words they have all the things that you use as reasons for separating the public and private schools. They have won more football titles then any school, public or private.

 

Isn't that a disproportionate number of titles. For the good of the majority they have to be separated.

 

In your world how often should a school be entitled to a championship?

[ladiesbballcoach]

No but it is an example of a public school program that has great community backing, great academics and great athletics. In other words they have all the things that you use as reasons for separating the public and private schools. They have won more football titles then any school, public or private.

 

Isn't that a disproportionate number of titles. For the good of the majority they have to be separated.

 

In your world how often should a school be entitled to a championship?

You are making the point that I am making in another thread. Public and private school systems are DIFFERENT. You cannot evaluate a public school system based upon private school measures and vice versa does not hold true. They are different beasts. Both vital and both good. Both are needed and both serve individual needs. But they are different. Different does not mean either is better nor either is worse. Just Different.

[oldschoolwrestler]

No but it is an example of a public school program that has great community backing, great academics and great athletics. In other words they have all the things that you use as reasons for separating the public and private schools. They have won more football titles then any school, public or private.

 

Isn't that a disproportionate number of titles. For the good of the majority they have to be separated.

 

In your world how often should a school be entitled to a championship?

 

 

In Nky they are highly highly critisized for "attracting" (for lack of a better word) football players from their surrounding districts. And why they only officially won 2 games last year.

 

Highlands must defend, and keep an eye out for recruiting violations every year, while private schools do not have the same problem. (Incoming Freshman is what I am talking about)

[ladiesbballcoach]

In Nky they are highly highly critisized for "attracting" (for lack of a better word) football players from their surrounding districts. And why they only officially won 2 games last year.

 

Highlands must defend, and keep an eye out for recruiting violations every year, while private schools do not have the same problem.

This is not going to go over well and you may want to consider rewording that last few words.

[oldschoolwrestler]

I though the same thing. How about the new edit?? :laugh:

[oldschoolwrestler]

I'll try and clarify my statement. Since the allegations of recruiting, Highlands is under a magnifying glass. This has forced them to make sure all athletes are legitimate, and follow the KHSAA guidelines. Whereas if they were a private school some of these guidelines they would not have to follow, such as district violations.

[All Tell]

Do you honestly think that everything done at Trinity and X for example is not completely scrutinized?

 

Do you really not believe that there are people laying in wait for that one time either of these schools "slips"?

 

Please enlighten me, what KHSAA guidelines do private schools not have to follow?