Do You Think Obama is....

[Habib]

United States - Capitalist nation. I don't consider using tax revenues for the good of all (roads, military, etc) a socialist method. It's just a practical one. Welfare, Medicare and public education could be considered such, but that doesn't make us socialist.

 

Here is my question then: If they United States is a capitalist state (the most capitalist in the world, I might add) despite having massive agricultural subsidies, a public infrastructure system, military, a progressive tax system, social security, some forms of nationalized healthcare in medicare and medicaide, etc., then what is it that still makes us capitalist and what is it that Obama is reversing that will make us socialist? Is George Bush a socialist because of the exorbitant public spending seen under his watch, the steel cartel created under his watch, or his hallmark increases into the size of national industries (secondary education and Medicare)? Where is the line?

 

Being liberal or Democrat doesn't make you socialist. A socialist wants to take tasks from the private industry and put it in the government's hands. Chavez's nationalization of the Venezuelan oil companies is a perfect example.

 

I agree. But, will private hospitals, private doctors, and private insurance companies be closing their doors and handing the keys over to the government under Obama's plan? Is an increase in government spending socialist? I contend that it is a liberal enterprise, but not a socialist one.

 

The meaning of the word has been so far diluted that it's used to describe anyone that isn't Adam Smith (and some on here would still call him a socialist). Is that really being honest? We already have a word to describe those who advocate a larger government - liberal. Socialism rejects the markets as the mechanism that moves the economy in favor of central planning through the ownership of industries, private property, and the termination of free enterprise. That is a fundamental difference in ideology, not a blurred line between parties, especially American parties.

[HHSDad]

I think there needs to be a balance between capitalism and socialism. A nation has to depend on government for certain things like the military & infrastructure. I have no problem with the government being pro-active in supporting those who are unable to support themselves. I don't consider Social Security to be one of those programs, since it's supposed to be self supportive. Then take the agriculture subsidies. Without them, farmers go bankrupt, no one produces food and we all starve. There are places where government needs to step in, but I don't think medicine is one of them. I think we will see medical advances will grind to a halt if that happens.

[Trojans]

I consider a sociliast to be someone who says, "you U.S. citizens aren't smart enoughto know what to do so we will just let the government do everything," (well not everything but a lot). I voted for yes in the poll.

[acemona]

To refute the label:

 

#1 - Obama does not want to nationalize health care. That is the one place he and Sen. Clinton differe. He is not for a single payer system, he does not want the fed. gov't to run the insurance program. His goal is to work to make it affordable to all people so that people do not go without access.

 

#2 - I have seen nothing in his literature that talks about federalizing Education. GWB has come closest than anyone with his No Child Left Behind program.

 

#3 - A progressive tax structure is not a socialist ideal (although this is the closest area)

 

#4 - He does not want to nationalize the means of production in America

 

#5 - He has not called for any "cooperative" or "workers councils" that make production decisions

 

#6 - He is not anti religious. His religion may, however, contribute to his "market" ideas. Jesus said, "sell all of your property and give your money to the poor."

[75center]

No, he's not.

[HHSDad]

My understanding is that's how Obama was raised by his hippie momma.

[oldrambler]

For those who said "yes," what term do you use to describe Hugo Chavez? Would you also consider George Bush a socialist? Bill Clinton? Franklin Roosevelt? Would you consider the United States a socialist state? Are liberal and socialist synonymous? Are all Democrats socialists? An accompanying explanation would also be necessary.

 

1. YES, Chavez is a socialist.

2. NO, That imo is a joke of a question, Bush has made plenty of mistakes and imo surrounded himself and stuck too long with some people that gave him bad information but in no way is he a socialist, that's just crazy.

3. Maybe, A lot of Clinton's ideas and policies were definatley borderline if not all out socialist ideas. I don't know about socialist or not but I do wonder about "mafia" connections with the list of people that had the info (dirt) on them and the Whitewater scandal that are no longer with us (JMO and a hunch)....:sssh:

4. NO, I personally do not remember Roosevelt but from what all I can remember hearing he was a great President.

5. NO, That is an insult t even ask imo. Take a look Arlington and all of the other cemetary's around this great country at the graves of the ones that paid the ultimate price to keep us free and you will find that answer.

6. NO, I do not lump all into one category at all. I will say that most of the Dems/liberals in office right now are leaning more and more that way.

7. NO, I come from a long line of True Democrats that are quite frankly sickened by the flaming liberal idiots :madman: of today tht are calling themselves a Democrat. They in no way represent a true democrat's views on things and are an absolute emabarrassment!

[the mathemagician]

No, he's not.

 

 

I agree. I have seen or heard nothing from Obama to indicate that he comes anywhere close to meeting the definition of a socialist.

 

 

"The attempted abolition of all privilege by restoring pwer entirely to the coercive agent behind privilege, the State, thereby converting capitalist oligarchy into Statist monopoly." The Illuminatus/Trilogy

 

 

"Under socialism, all the means of production are the property of the community. It is the community alone that can dispose of them and which determines their use in production." Economic Calculation in the Socialist Commonwealth-- Ludwig von Mises

 

"Private property is eliminated, individualism goes by the board, individuality is flattened, all property is owned and controlled communally, and the individual units of the new collective organism, are in som vague way equal to one another." Murray N. Rothbard-- Classical Economics, vol.II, An Austrian Perspective on the History of Economic Thought

 

"It may mean, and is often used to describe,merely the ideals of social justice,greater equality, and security, which are the ultimate aims of socialism. But it means also the particular method by which most socialistshope to attain these ends and which many competent people regard as the only methods by which they can be fully and quickly attained. In this sense, socialism means the abolition of private enterprise, of private ownership of the means of production, and the creation of a system of "planned economy" in which the entrepeneur working for profit is replaced by a central planning body." The Road to Surfdom-- F.A. Hayek

 

I don't think there is anything in Sen. Obama's rhetoric, record, or rationale that suggests that he need be labeled "socialist." That's a label attached to him by some who just want to rile people up and continue the pattern of divisive politics that have left the country stagnating in a pool of partisian tomfoolery.

[HHSDad]

4. NO, I personally do not remember Roosevelt but from what all I can remember hearing he was a great President.

5. NO, That is an insult t even ask imo. Take a look Arlington and all of the other cemetary's around this great country at the graves of the ones that paid the ultimate price to keep us free and you will find that answer.

Being a socialist does not make you a bad president, nor would it necessary make America bad. I think you are comparing socialism to cold war communism.

[the mathemagician]

Being a socialist does not make you a bad president, nor would it necessary make America bad. I think you are comparing socialism to cold war communism.

 

 

That is correct. Like you said, there needs to be a balance.

[shooter]

Wow! math quoting Ludwig Von Mises....I didn't expect that!

[the mathemagician]

Wow! math quoting Ludwig Von Mises....I didn't expect that!

 

 

:lol: And it's not even April Fools.

[nWo]

Being a socialist does not make you a bad president, nor would it necessary make America bad. I think you are comparing socialism to cold war communism.

I agree.

[oldrambler]

Being a socialist does not make you a bad president, nor would it necessary make America bad. I think you are comparing socialism to cold war communism.

 

I will respectfully disagree, I was talking about socialist. Everyone has thier opinion though, you mentioned Communism. I wasn't trying to bring that into it or sound confused with it but as for Obama I will add that to the list. Obama along with his wife seem to me like much more of a Communist as well. He (Obama) no matter what label is put on him is bad news, imo very scary what will happen to this country should he be elected.

JMO

[the mathemagician]

I will respectfully disagree, I was talking about socialist. Everyone has thier opinion though, you mentioned Communism. I wasn't trying to bring that into it or sound confused with it but as for Obama I will add that to the list. Obama along with his wife seem to me like much more of a Communist as well. He (Obama) no matter what label is put on him is bad news, imo very scary what will happen to this country should he be elected.

JMO

 

:lol:

 

For some reason, he just doesn't strike me as Stalinesque. I couldn't have ever imagined Stalin ever standing in church on Father's Day and exempifying what it means to be a man of faith ,a responsible father to his kids, and extolling those virtues as ones that others in his community should adhere to.