Now I am really lost. Anyhow, so do you feel like giving at church is the same as paying taxes?

 

No.

No.

 

Do you feel they are similar?

Old Testiment, my friend, the other half, alot of my brothers and sisters try to forget...

 

Right you are.

 

And it is also in the OT that we find the law setting up the "Year of Jubilee." Every 50 years all lands returned to the families of the original distribution. All debts were cancelled and everyone started anew. It was to emulate the forgiveness of God and set up justice and hope for a new beginning.

 

However the Israelites didn't practice it very often and my guess is that neither would the US.

But the problem is that churches are not and were not doing it and still not doing. So, the government has stepped in and is trying to do what the churches have failed to do.

 

Since churches have failed in doing this, you now feel that the government can best serve those in need?

But the problem is that churches are not and were not doing it and still not doing. So, the government has stepped in and is trying to do what the churches have failed to do.

The government has stepped in because it allows politicians to buy the votes and support of the people who benefit from wealth distribution - those who pay no federal income taxes (some of whom even receive "refunds"). The real beauty of the system is that these politicians are able to buy votes using other people's money.

 

A government which robs Peter to pay Paul, can always count on the support of Paul. - George Bernard Shaw

Since churches have failed in doing this, you now feel that the government can best serve those in need?

 

Not best, but in the absence of minimal to any, yes the government does a good job with it.

Not best, but in the absence of minimal to any, yes the government does a good job with it.

 

Do you think the fact that there are many government entitlement programs could be an influence on the decrease in church's role in welfare over the last 100 years or so?

Do you think the fact that there are many government entitlement programs could be an influence on the decrease in church's role in welfare over the last 100 years or so?

 

This comes back to expectations. While things are going well everyone is fine but lets use the beef scare & recalls this week. People want to know how did this happen? what changes will be made? If we didnt have this type of program we'd have no telling what in our food.

 

While many argue that businesses will do what's right, this beef company sure didn't! They abused, neglected and put possibly harmful food into the market for not just anyone. They sent it to schools. why? they would have lost a few bucks, if they hadn't used it.

 

I am not arguing that wealth re-distribution is right, we definitely without a doubt need the gov't to oversee and make sure businesses are not praying, manipulating and harming citizens.

This comes back to expectations. While things are going well everyone is fine but lets use the beef scare & recalls this week. People want to know how did this happen? what changes will be made? If we didnt have this type of program we'd have no telling what in our food.

 

While many argue that businesses will do what's right, this beef company sure didn't! They abused, neglected and put possibly harmful food into the market for not just anyone. They sent it to schools. why? they would have lost a few bucks, if they hadn't used it.

 

I am not arguing that wealth re-distribution is right, we definitely without a doubt need the gov't to oversee and make sure businesses are not praying, manipulating and harming citizens.

 

So going back to LBBC's post earlier about Shaq, do you feel that the government should take more money from him since he "wastes" money on some things that we feel are absurd?

Great question. Don't know.

 

I think when government and others start trying to determine what a "comfortable life" should be we are heading down a very slippery slope.

LBBC, I have heard other Christians say the same thing you are saying about how biblically right it is to aggressively tax the rich to provide for the poor. I usually respond with something to the effect of :what you are saying is that if you are a true Christian you are a socialist, so I can presume that you support only politicians that are from the Socialist Party. That usually slows them down. When I really want to shut them up I ask them if they are so sure that the Bible instructs us that we have to give to the poor, why they then haven't sold their home, their cars, their personal possessions and given all their money to the poor. That usually shuts them up.

 

And again, if we truly believe that God gave us free will so we can make our own decisions as to how we will live our lives and such will be used by God to determine if we are worthy of entering Heaven, then forcing people to help the poor in the form of taxing them, flies totally in the face of free will.

I disagree, I believe welfare is definitely biblically based. I just don't think "government" welfare is biblically based.

 

That is what I was driving at!!! :thumb:

LBBC, I have heard other Christians say the same thing you are saying about how biblically right it is to aggressively tax the rich to provide for the poor. I usually respond with something to the effect of :what you are saying is that if you are a true Christian you are a socialist, so I can presume that you support only politicians that are from the Socialist Party. That usually slows them down. When I really want to shut them up I ask them if they are so sure that the Bible instructs us that we have to give to the poor, why they then haven't sold their home, their cars, their personal possessions and given all their money to the poor. That usually shuts them up.

 

And again, if we truly believe that God gave us free will so we can make our own decisions as to how we will live our lives and such will be used by God to determine if we are worthy of entering Heaven, then forcing people to help the poor in the form of taxing them, flies totally in the face of free will.[/QUOTE]

 

This is what I was saying at earlier.

 

FYI: The book of Luke deals with alot with the idea of wealth.

Redistributing wealth from those who work and earn a good living to those who choose not to work and choose not to take advantage of the opportunities available to them is immoral regardless of the gap in wealth between the two groups.

 

I favor exempting some people from taxation who are unable to earn a reasonable income through no fault of their own, such as the severely mentally or physically disabled.

 

The type of class envy that is exploited by hucksters like John Edwards for power and personal wealth threatens to destroy our society.

 

I agree. For those who are unable to work for a legitimate reason we should help. Otherwise for those who refuse to work, don't take advantage of opportunities and just want to freeload---forget it.

I agree. For those who are unable to work for a legitimate reason we should help. Otherwise for those who refuse to work, don't take advantage of opportunities and just want to freeload---forget it.

But that is the problem, it is way too easy to find a legitimate reason not to work.