LBBC, I have heard other Christians say the same thing you are saying about how biblically right it is to aggressively tax the rich to provide for the poor. I usually respond with something to the effect of :what you are saying is that if you are a true Christian you are a socialist, so I can presume that you support only politicians that are from the Socialist Party. That usually slows them down. When I really want to shut them up I ask them if they are so sure that the Bible instructs us that we have to give to the poor, why they then haven't sold their home, their cars, their personal possessions and given all their money to the poor. That usually shuts them up.

 

And again, if we truly believe that God gave us free will so we can make our own decisions as to how we will live our lives and such will be used by God to determine if we are worthy of entering Heaven, then forcing people to help the poor in the form of taxing them, flies totally in the face of free will.

 

Something shut me up?!?! NEVER!!!!!:lol:

 

Not sure I know what you mean by aggressively tax the rich.

 

And not sure that I said or agree that it is biblically rather was questioning and contributing to the debate. My view on this matter is in flux right now. And I know I don't presently have a concrete position.

Here's a scenario:

 

A young girl gets pregnant when she's 18. She's graduated high school, on the path to college, and WHAM! She has another life to care for. She has the baby, doesn't go to college, and tries to make ends meet taking whatever job she can. She's without help. Her family can't take care of the baby while she works. Day care costs upwards of $150/week. She makes $9.00 an hour. She has to pay her rent, utilities, baby needs, day care, car payment, insurance and health insurance on that $9.00/hr. She tries. She really tries. But the baby gets sick with a bronchial infection and she winds up missing a week of work. They are pretty good about it, but it's winter, and she keeps missing work because the baby has ear infections, and the occasional fever and the day care won't allow her to bring the baby. She loses her job.

 

Are these circumstances beyond her control? Should she and the baby just suffer because of a mistake made over a year ago? Is this just her tough luck because she was irresponsible one night? Is it just the tough luck of the baby because it's parent was irresponsible one night, that it winds up homeless and hungry?

 

Like it or not, in a civilized society, we take care of those who have less.

Where is the local church in the senerio, volunteers to help in this matter... caring for brothers and sisters.

Do you think the fact that there are many government entitlement programs could be an influence on the decrease in church's role in welfare over the last 100 years or so?

 

If every christian gave his 10% tithe the welfare system would be out of bussiness in less than a year, private schools would multiply all over the country, and churches would begin massive expansions of building projects and missionaries and still be debt free.

Where is the local church in the senerio, volunteers to help in this matter... caring for brothers and sisters.

 

 

In reality, look at some of the posts in this thread. Not enough people give voluntarily or give enough for the churches or the non-governmental agencies to cover the needs of the many that are in dire straits.

 

There is the utopian ideal (everyone can get help without the government's help), and the reality (there isn't enough charitable resources available).

In reality, look at some of the posts in this thread. Not enough people give voluntarily or give enough for the churches or the non-governmental agencies to cover the needs of the many that are in dire straits.

 

There is the utopian ideal (everyone can get help without the government's help), and the reality (there isn't enough charitable resources available).

 

So, it is the rich person's fault that the mother got pregnant, and the church will not help that person who made a choice, and has to live in proverty?

So, it is the rich person's fault that the mother got pregnant, and the church will not help that person who made a choice, and has to live in proverty?

 

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness"

 

This is just a portion of the Declaration of Independence which I feel states my views more elequently than I can!! Our founding fathers were neither republican nor democrat but Americans.

So going back to LBBC's post earlier about Shaq, do you feel that the government should take more money from him since he "wastes" money on some things that we feel are absurd?

 

No one is arguing that we should tax more b/c people waste money. This is an absurd argument since there is no way of knowing or making any rules regarding "wasting".

Here's a scenario:

 

A young girl gets pregnant when she's 18. She's graduated high school, on the path to college, and WHAM! She has another life to care for. She has the baby, doesn't go to college, and tries to make ends meet taking whatever job she can. She's without help. Her family can't take care of the baby while she works. Day care costs upwards of $150/week. She makes $9.00 an hour. She has to pay her rent, utilities, baby needs, day care, car payment, insurance and health insurance on that $9.00/hr. She tries. She really tries. But the baby gets sick with a bronchial infection and she winds up missing a week of work. They are pretty good about it, but it's winter, and she keeps missing work because the baby has ear infections, and the occasional fever and the day care won't allow her to bring the baby. She loses her job.

 

Are these circumstances beyond her control? Should she and the baby just suffer because of a mistake made over a year ago? Is this just her tough luck because she was irresponsible one night? Is it just the tough luck of the baby because it's parent was irresponsible one night, that it winds up homeless and hungry?

 

Like it or not, in a civilized society, we take care of those who have less.

 

Over in the casino gambling thread, they would tell you Darwinism, survival of the strong and she is out of luck or should take her last few dollars and pump it in the slot machines.

 

I think our society should help.

So going back to LBBC's post earlier about Shaq, do you feel that the government should take more money from him since he "wastes" money on some things that we feel are absurd?

 

My point is not that he wastes money but rather he could afford to support those not born 7'4" and a freak of nature a little more than he presently is.

If every christian gave his 10% tithe the welfare system would be out of bussiness in less than a year, private schools would multiply all over the country, and churches would begin massive expansions of building projects and missionaries and still be debt free.

 

I don't know and would really like to know what the Shaq's of the world donate to real causes????

 

If the Bill Gates, Larry Ellison's, Beatty's,Trumps, Wal-Mart Heirs, Bob Krafts, Jerry Jones, Shaq's, A-ROD's, Derek Jeter's, David Beckham's, And all the other people not just Christians Donated their 10 % to churches then there would be no need for Government Welfare Programs...

 

I do my share on giving Donations I send regular donations to CBN.(Christian Broadcast Network) and to many of my local churces.....

I own 2 Business and I would give the shirt off my back to someone that really needed it.. I have given,bought many things for the less fortunate in my neighborhood and don't want no thanks...

 

It like the old country song(Don't let the chain of love end with you) I know I have been blessed to have so much especially since I'm only 23 but I know where I came from how hard I had it. ( When I was 14 we got kicked out of our place and I slept outside in a tent for 4 Months)... I wouldn't ask for any handouts

 

I just don't think all these taxes are for REDISTRIBUTION!!!!!!!!! I believe the majority of out taxes will be going to Fund this war for a very long time... What is is like 3 Trillion is that the Debt now???

 

We need to stop being so GREEDY with our money.... I truly believe that is why AMERICA is on such a sharp decline, were never happy with anything, always gotta have more... I believe if you give you will recieve alot more in the end...

 

I'm not the smartest and don't claim to be, but I belive that America will never again be the Power it was in the 40's& 50's.

 

We have forgotten how to share with others that are not as lucky as we are...

:cry:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness"

 

This is just a portion of the Declaration of Independence which I feel states my views more elequently than I can!! Our founding fathers were neither republican nor democrat but Americans.

 

The oppertunity is there by a free public education, what people choose to do with that education is their buisness.

 

My friends do not get me wrong, if a person of faith gives, it should not be because of their Civic Duty, but because their Creator who has blessed each of us many times over has commanded usto do so and to do it with a grateful heart. Does this mean that we will be rich beyond my wildest dreams, not in the terms that you believe. I am to love my neighbor, I try, but has anyone ever heard of tough love?

 

In the area that I am from, people do not work, mostly because they Choose not to because they will count on someone like you and me to pick the tab up. Is that right? What have they learned? What are they teaching their children?

 

God does not want laziness and that is exactly what is being promoted, we are to work. There is a distinction between those who can and those who won't. I just think it is awful that we can not seprate(sp) the difference!

 

Thoughts?

My point is not that he wastes money but rather he could afford to support those not born 7'4" and a freak of nature a little more than he presently is.

 

So you feel the government should make him support those in need at the threat of jailtime if he doesn't?

The oppertunity is there by a free public education, what people choose to do with that education is their buisness.

 

My friends do not get me wrong, if a person of faith gives, it should not be because of their Civic Duty, but because their Creator who has blessed each of us many times over has commanded usto do so and to do it with a grateful heart. Does this mean that we will be rich beyond my wildest dreams, not in the terms that you believe. I am to love my neighbor, I try, but has anyone ever heard of tough love?

 

In the area that I am from, people do not work, mostly because they Choose not to because they will count on someone like you and me to pick the tab up. Is that right? What have they learned? What are they teaching their children?

 

God does not want laziness and that is exactly what is being promoted, we are to work. There is a distinction between those who can and those who won't. I just think it is awful that we can not seprate(sp) the difference!

 

Thoughts?

 

These programs are necessary. I agree there are many people that abuse the system & this should be address. I feel that anyone who gets any aid from the U.S. gov't (food stamps to Medicare) should be drug tested. There is no need for able bodied people to not be working. Most people on disability need it, but those few that dont, give disability checks a bad name.

The oppertunity is there by a free public education, what people choose to do with that education is their buisness.

 

I wanted to address this portion of your comment. Since we are talking about redistribution, we are talking about the Federal gov't. So, in the United States Constitution it doesn't name education at all, except with the 10th Amendment. It states that whatever is not discussed specifically in the Constitution is a power for the states.

 

Also, the Constitution doesn't state anything about a "free economy" or "Reaganomics" but it does say things like "WE are created equal".

 

What does "we are created equal" mean to you??

 

to me, it means that if your a millionaire, billionaire, homeless, Jew, Catholic, Christian, Mormon, disabled, healthy, old, young, etc., "WE (all) are created equal". You may have more money but we are the same. WE ALL make up the United States of America. WE ALL are in this together. WE ALL must work to help all of our neighbors.

 

Colonists came to America to escape the discrimination that was in Europe. Nobles controlling all the land. ONE Church controlling all the power. They escaped this to be free & equal, not to establish the same old thing that was in England.