Gun Control

[MBWC41]

Look, you are more than entitled to own your gun. I just don't think it's necessary. Now, that is obviously not my place to determine for you.

 

But, I do have to point out that I have managed to get through my life safely without owning a gun.

 

I understand everything you are saying. I just dont feel like I should be considered one of the "dangerous" ones because I choose to own a gun for protection.

 

As to getting through life safely without owning a gun thats understandable too. I just dont feel that being prepared for the worst case scenario to happen makes me dangerous.

 

Just as I said earlier, I don't assume I am going to be in a car accident every time I start my car but I put my seatbelt on anyway. It makes me feel safe just as owning a gun does.

[rockmom]

These are statistics from the CDC from 2004 (the latest data available)

 

These are specific to kids 19 & younger

 

Nationwide:

 

		2004	2003	2002	2001	2000	1999
Accidental
	0-4	15	7	12	15	19	12
	5-9	13	13	14	18	18	19
	10-14	35	36	34	39	49	57
	15-19	80	95	107	110	107	126
	Subtotal	143	151	167	182	193	214
Suicide
	0-4	0	0	0	0	0	0
	5-9	0	1	0	0	0	0
	10-14	59	73	86	90	110	103
	15-19	787	736	742	838	897	975
	Subtotal	846	810	828	928	1007	1078
Homicide
	0-4	42	48	58	66	40	58
	5-9	45	48	55	59	50	61
	10-14	139	139	150	121	137	163
	15-19	1578	1587	1567	1525	1549	1708
	Subtotal	1804	1822	1830	1771	1776	1990
Undetermined/Other
	0-4	1	1	1	0	0	3
	5-9	3	1	2	2	2	0
	10-14	6	13	7	4	11	13
	15-19	49	51	58	50	53	87
	Subtotal	59	66	68	56	66	103
All Intents/TOTAL
	0-4	58	56	71	81	59	73
	5-9	61	63	71	79	70	80
	10-14	239	261	277	254	307	336
	15-19	2494	2469	2474	2523	2606	2896
	TOTAL	2852	2849	2893	2937	3042	3385

*The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's National Center for Health Statistics releases national mortality data approximately 18 months after the end of each calendar year. The most recent data available is for 2004, released in November 2006. Expect to see 2005 numbers here in fall 2007.

NOTE: Rates based on 20 or fewer deaths may be unstable. Use with caution.

ABOUT 1999-2004 DATA: The coding of mortality data changed significantly in 1999 from ICD-9 to ICD-10, so you may not be able to compare number of deaths and death rates from 1998 and before with data from 1999 and after. Though there were no apparent changes in the coding of firearm deaths, the National Center for Health Statistics does not recommend combining 1999-2004 data with previous years to obtain average annual numbers of death and death rates.

TABLE: Statistics compiled by Common Sense about Kids and Guns using WISQARS. WISQARS is produced by the Office of Statistics and Programming, NCIPC, CDC.

DATA SOURCE: National Center for Health Statistics National Vital Statistics System.

[rockmom]

Kentucky Firearm Deaths

Ages 0 to 19, 1999-2004

All Races, Both Sexes

(2004 is the most recent data available*)

		2004	2003	2002	2001	2000	1999
Accidental
	0-4	0	1	1	0	0	0
	5-9	0	1	0	2	0	0
	10-14	0	2	1	1	1	2
	15-19	2	6	4	4	6	3
	Subtotal	2	10	6	7	7	5
Suicide
	0-4	0	0	0	0	0	0
	5-9	0	0	0	0	0	0
	10-14	0	2	2	1	1	0
	15-19	20	11	11	14	16	11
	Subtotal	20	13	13	15	17	11
Homicide
	0-4	0	0	1	0	0	1
	5-9	0	0	0	0	0	0
	10-14	0	0	0	1	3	2
	15-19	18	9	11	11	8	18
	Subtotal	18	9	12	12	11	21
Undetermined/Other
	0-4	0	0	0	0	0	0
	5-9	0	0	0	0	0	0
	10-14	0	1	0	0	0	0
	15-19	2	1	3	0	0	2
	Subtotal	2	2	3	0	0	2
All Intents/TOTAL
	0-4	0	1	2	0	0	1
	5-9	0	1	0	2	0	0
	10-14	0	5	3	3	5	4
	15-19	42	27	29	29	30	34
	TOTAL	42	34	34	34	35	39

*The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's National Center for Health Statistics releases national mortality data approximately 18 months after the end of each calendar year. The most recent data available is for 2004, released in November 2006. Expect to see 2005 numbers here in fall 2007.

NOTE: Rates based on 20 or fewer deaths may be unstable. Use with caution.

ABOUT 1999-2004 DATA: The coding of mortality data changed significantly in 1999 from ICD-9 to ICD-10, so you may not be able to compare number of deaths and death rates from 1998 and before with data from 1999 and after. Though there were no apparent changes in the coding of firearm deaths, the National Center for Health Statistics does not recommend combining 1999-2004 data with previous years to obtain average annual numbers of death and death rates.

TABLE: Statistics compiled by Common Sense about Kids and Guns using WISQARS. WISQARS is produced by the Office of Statistics and Programming, NCIPC, CDC.

DATA SOURCE: National Center for Health Statistics National Vital Statistics System.

[rockmom]

I guess if everyone is ok with losing ~3000 kids a year by gun, whether accidental, homicide or sucide, I'll not argue with you.

 

In Kentucky, it's "only" ~40 a year. I guess that makes it insignificant.

[oldrambler]

 

If I were persoally attacked, I'd have much more success in screaming and using personal safety tactics I know than using a gun. First, I wouldn't be carrying a gun in a place that would be as convenient to get to if attacked unexpectedly.

 

There are other ways to stop bad things from happening besides guns. A lot of it is preventative.

1. For the first part that I have quoted on your post. All I can say is that I hope that you are right for YOUR sake. Imo that this is just not true in all cases. I personally don't want to take a chance on an attack being a case where you "tatics" wouldn't work or no one was around to hear a scream or close enough to respond in time to save your life. Do you?

 

2. You are correct on preventative measures and I agree that everyone should take these measures. I also believe that there are situations that are not preventative and will happen ragardless of how careful one is. I personally want to be able to protect myself or a family member if one of these situations should arise.

[Ram]

Forgive me, but you sound very afraid! :eek:

 

And, didn't I see you on Criminal Minds the other night?

 

I have seen many people, just like me, killed in their own house. I am not afraid, just prepared.

 

Nice liberal approach, just like a liberal politician. Ask a series of questions, if the person answers "no" to the questions chastise them, if they answer "yes", make them look paranoid.

 

If I would answered no to your questions you would have said that I was not taking precautions that would likely stop a confrontation with an armed criminal. When I answered yes, I have all these precautions, you say that I am afraid.

[Run To State]

CDC admits there is no evidence that gun control reduces crime. The Centers for Disease Control (CDC) has long been criticized for propagating questionable studies which gun control organizations have used in defense of their cause. But after analyzing 51 studies in 2003, the CDC concluded that the "evidence was insufficient to determine the effectiveness of any of these [firearms] laws."

[leatherneck]

Rockmom, you are certainly entitled to your beliefs and if you choose to never own a gun, that is certainly your right.

 

But I think you have to admit that there is a lot of accurate evidence out there that supports the position that guns actually save a lot of innocent people; that there are much fewer incidents of innocent people getting shot due to mistakes or accidents; and that police are not really going to be able to protect us.

 

BTW, I'm very glad that your dog scared off the person robbing your home. Unfortunately I know that in most cases, a dog is good for not much more than waking you up and alerting you to the presence of an intruder. Dogs, even the baddest of those, can be quickly dispatched by someone who knows what he's doing.

 

We'll probably not convince each other of our respective positions, so maybe its best we just stop. Take care and best wishes. LN

[oldrambler]

All of these posting of statistics about persons killed with guns are are all well fine and good, I have to go back to a line in one of my favorite "All in The Family" episodes. When Gloria was spittin gout statistics about how many peope were killed by guns, Archie replied "would it make you feel any better if they had pushed them out of a window??" :lol: :lol:

 

I am just aving some fun now but in a way this makes a point, a pedson that is going to commit an act of violence can use a weapon besides a gun, I guess that we should outlw knifes, clubs - ball bats, bricks, rocks, a broken bottle with the jagged edges used as a knife. While we are at it, lets outlaw the original weapon...fist! A person gets the idea.

 

Like I said in another post, part of the problem (a big part imo) arfe these bleedinf hear chicken crap judges who give in to lobbying and that all too popular "he can rehab" defenses. Imo let them "Rehnab" behind bars for the duration of the sentence, NO paroll if convicted of a crime with a gun. This would go a long way in deterring future crimes of this sort if the one that commit them know that they are not getting off easy. JMO.

[oldrambler]

Rockmom, you are certainly entitled to your beliefs and if you choose to never own a gun, that is certainly your right.

 

But I think you have to admit that there is a lot of accurate evidence out there that supports the position that guns actually save a lot of innocent people; that there are much fewer incidents of innocent people getting shot due to mistakes or accidents; and that police are not really going to be able to protect us.

 

BTW, I'm very glad that your dog scared off the person robbing your home. Unfortunately I know that in most cases, a dog is good for not much more than waking you up and alerting you to the presence of an intruder. Dogs, even the baddest of those, can be quickly dispatched by someone who knows what he's doing.

 

We'll probably not convince each other of our respective positions, so maybe its best we just stop. Take care and best wishes. LN

Good post here along with a very good idea. I will get off my soap box now as well. :thumb: :thumb:

[Run To State]

Accidental Deaths - United States - 1999-2003

 

Type 5 Yr. Average General Population

Risk Per Year

Motor Vehicle 36,676 1 out of 7,700

Poisoning 15,206 1 out of 18,700

Work Related 5,800 1 out of 49,000

Large Trucks 5,150 1 out of 55,000

Pedestrian 4,846 1 out of 58,000

Drowning 3,409 1 out of 83,500

Fires 3,312 1 out of 86,000

Motorcycles 3,112 1 out of 91,500

Railroads 931 1 out of 306,000

Firearms 779 1 out of 366,000

Rec. Boating 714 1 out of 399,000

Bicycles 695 1 out of 410,000

Electric Current 410 1 out of 695,000

Air Carriers 138 1 out of 2,067,000

Flood 58 1 out of 4,928,000

Tornado 57 1 out of 5,015,000

Lightning 47 1 out of 6,061,000

 

Maybe we should consider banning bikes. :sssh:

[Jumper_Dad]

I would surmise from the CDC stats that none of these juveniles (under 18)had legally purchased any of these guns. Therefore these guns were originally purchased by someone else. The issue of juvenile deaths (except for the murders) is who left a gun and ammunition where a child had access to it.

 

How many kids intentionally or accidentally overdose on medicine that is left unsecured by a responsible person each year?

How many teenage drivers die each year?

How many teenagers die from alcohol each year?

How many teens start smoking each year (it'll kill'em eventually)?

 

Where is the outrage against teenagers driving or even being in cars to begin with? Where is the outrage against any of these other issues?

 

I ask those questions to make a point that the CDC stats while horrific are a reflection of our entire society. Gun violence does not seek out our youths(unless you are in a gang). Any argument against firearms needs to be based on a total effect on the country not just a group of people that legally should not have had them to begin with.

 

The whole Va Tech shooting "might" have been prevented, if background checks had access to mental health records. The shooter according to a report on the radio this morning had a mental health record. These are not available because it would be an "Invasion" into someones privacy. That rule needs to be recinded ASAP....ACLU be danged. That said, this unstable murderer would have gotten a gun somewhere, I am sure.

[Jumper_Dad]

Accidental Deaths - United States - 1999-2003

 

Type 5 Yr. Average General Population

Risk Per Year

Motor Vehicle 36,676 1 out of 7,700

Poisoning 15,206 1 out of 18,700

Work Related 5,800 1 out of 49,000

Large Trucks 5,150 1 out of 55,000

Pedestrian 4,846 1 out of 58,000

Drowning 3,409 1 out of 83,500

Fires 3,312 1 out of 86,000

Motorcycles 3,112 1 out of 91,500

Railroads 931 1 out of 306,000

Firearms 779 1 out of 366,000

Rec. Boating 714 1 out of 399,000

Bicycles 695 1 out of 410,000

Electric Current 410 1 out of 695,000

Air Carriers 138 1 out of 2,067,000

Flood 58 1 out of 4,928,000

Tornado 57 1 out of 5,015,000

Lightning 47 1 out of 6,061,000

 

 

I've been hit twice and survived, I wonder what the odds of that is?

[MBWC41]

I've been hit twice and survived, I wonder what the odds of that is?

Go by a powerball ticket, IMMEDIATELY !

[Jim Schue]

I've been hit twice and survived, I wonder what the odds of that is?

 

Must be more common than first thought, because a guy I grew up with has twice been struck by lightning. :eek: