Its not silly to me, an unarmed society is a society ready for exploitation and abuse.

New Zealand has had some form of firearms registration since 1921. In 1974, all revolvers lawfully held for personal security were confiscated.

 

On 10 May 1996, Australia banned most semi-automatic rifles and semi-automatic and pump shotguns. Prior to this law, many Australian states and territories had firearms registration. Owners of these newly outlawed firearms were required to surrender them (with some monetary compensation). All such firearms are to be confiscated and destroyed after a 12-month amnesty program. Roughly 600,000 of an estimated 4 million Australian guns have been surrendered to authorities and destroyed.

 

Great Britain, Ireland, Greece, Jamaica, Russia, Cuba, Bermuda and China are other countries that implemented registration that led to bans and confiscation.

 

Still think it’s “silly”?

 

What's silly? To register firearms? To ban fire arms? To confiscate firearms? I guess it depends on which end of the barrel your facing that determines the answer to that question.

 

I have never, will never, own a firearm. I do not have a problem with you owning a firearm. I do have a problem with the fact that it's really no big deal to buy a firearm, and to register it, with no further requirements for safety training or proof of responsible use/storage.

 

I agree with leatherneck that responsible gun ownership is 99% commonsense. I think though, that 50% of owners with less than 99% commonsense to their credit poses a great enough risk to require a gun saftey test requirement for even a registration.

 

I have no problem with people who collect guns, or who hunt with guns. But, I think people who say they need a gun for protection are blowing hot air and are the ones who are dangerous. Unless you lead a risky lifestyle or live in a high crime neighborhood, I don't see how anyone can justify the "need" of a gun for personal safety. It's inviting trouble.

Since I have some time on my hands...

 

I am not "anti" gun ownership. I've been around guns all my life, especially throughout childhood. My dad had a shotgun, all my cousins had rifles and shotguns, and I know how to shoot myself, and I'm actually pretty good at it (as long as it's not a moving target. ).

 

As leatherneck stated, even those who are anti-gun do their kids a disservice by not at least educating them about guns. Heck, it's similar to drugs, alcohol use and safe-sex, IMO. You can't just say it's wrong or taboo and not educate your kids on the dangers.

 

But, to assume that just because someone owns a gun they are/will be responsible gun owners is dangerous too. I'd say it depends upon the demographic that you're speaking of. Leatherneck is obviously someone with a family history of gun ownership and hunting. A cop uses a gun, and I'm sure would educate his/her kids. But, Joe Schmoe Frat Boy grown up, who decides it's his right to buy a gun to protect his suburban house, who's never even been within spitting distance of a gun, let alone held one...those are the people who scare me. And it's not just whether or not he knows how to use it, but has the ability to think clearly enough in the middle of the night when waken by the boogey man who comes to his bedroom door and he can stop his reflex from immediately pulling it out of his night-stand drawer and aiming and pulling the trigger. It could have been his kid.

 

What about the guy who has the gun, keeps it locked up tight, ammunition separately stored and secured, and DOES get caught by the boogey man one night...What good would the gun do for him then?

 

There's simply no logic to owning a gun in this day and age for personal safety, unless you live in a high crime area or live a life that puts you at risk. The consitutional right to bear arms is yours, I grant you that. But, there's nothing in the costitution that says you can't be compelled to register your gun, or to present proof of you responsibility in owning the gun.

Imo we do not need any more gun laws on the books. There are many laws on the books now that are not being enforced by some of these judges all across the country. Guns are NOT the problem, the idiots that pull the trigger in these type of senseless acts are! What we need is stiffer prosecution of these criminals and MUCH stiffer sentences. This goes back to the legal system and their listening and caving into "rehabilitaion" pleas. JMO but this is a crock of "el toro poo poo", save the bleeding heart "had a bad life", "needs another chance", "can be rehabilitated" excuses:rolleyes: and put these scum of the earth trash behind bars for a loooooooooooooong time, no paroll...no anything :irked: . If these pieces of trash see stiffer penalties for gun laws ALREADY on the books and them being enforced imo things would improve.

I know how to shoot myself

 

:scared: :confused:

 

But, I think people who say they need a gun for protection are blowing hot air and are the ones who are dangerous. Unless you lead a risky lifestyle or live in a high crime neighborhood, I don't see how anyone can justify the "need" of a gun for personal safety. It's inviting trouble.

 

Are you kidding? Please tell me that you are kidding.

 

Store clerk Nicole Tucker, 21, first noticed the man wandering around Tucker’s Market around 4 p.m. when the store was very busy. He’d said he was looking for a friend. An hour later, when Tucker was alone in the store, the man returned. “I was by myself the second time,” she said. “He confronted me about money, he said, ‘Give me your money or I’ll blow your brains out.’” The man acted as though he had a gun in his pocket. As he came around the counter toward her, his view was momentarily obstructed and Tucker used that to her advantage. She grabbed the gun kept in the store, which stopped the man in his tracks. “He must have seen me with it (the gun) because he took off and ran back out the door. I followed him … I pointed the gun at him, but I never fired,” she explained. Police were on the scene within 30 seconds, but the suspect remained at large. Tucker’s coworker, Doris Clark, praised Tucker’s actions. “The only reason he didn’t get anything was that when he came around the corner, he was facing a gun,” Clark said. “She was a very brave young lady, and I compliment her very much for her bravery.” (Altavista Journal, Altavista, VA, 05/14/03)

 

A 64-year-old Tacoma, Wash., resident confined to his bed managed to defend himself when attacked by an intruder. He had just heard his wife leave the house when there was a loud bang, and then the back door was kicked in. The homeowner grabbed his gun in one hand and the phone to dial 9-1-1 with the other. That’s when a strange man entered his room, hiding his face with a handkerchief and intoning, “I’m going to get you.” According to the resident, “That’s when I shot him.” The wounded intruder and an accomplice fled, and police alerted area hospitals. The homeowner—who said he’s kept a gun in his home for protection for years, but had not fired it outside the range before the incident—said, “I’m thoroughly convinced this guy would have killed me.” (The News Tribune, Tacoma, WA, 06/03/03)

 

A Phoenix, Ariz., construction equipment company had been hit by a string of burglaries, so the owners decided to take turns standing guard at night to ward off any more thieves. Early one Tuesday morning Douglas Click, one of the owners at Arizona Hi-Lift, was guarding the company armed with a shotgun. He confronted two men who were stealing items from the equipment yard, and they attacked him with a metal rod, according to Phoenix Police Detective Tony Morales. Click responded by firing at his attackers, and one was fatally wounded. Detective Morales said no charges would be filed against Click as, “he was in fear of his life and he was being attacked.” (The Arizona Republic, Phoenix, AZ, 05/20/03)

 

A 75-year-old Independence Township, Mich., man was sitting on his couch watching television when he heard a loud noise. The homeowner went to investigate, and as he entered the kitchen he discovered three men coming in his back door, which had been kicked open. There was an exchange of gunfire between the resident and intruders, and the would-be burglars fled. Unfortunately, the man wasn’t able to provide good descriptions of the intruders for police. (The Oakland Press, Pontiac, MI, 05/13/03)

 

A south Houston, Texas, couple was loading items into their car in front of their home when two young men approached them and struck up a conversation. The woman said the men made her uncomfortable, and she immediately backed away from them. She noticed that as one man kept talking the other was moving behind her husband and kept his hand deep in his pants pocket. The woman ran inside and called 9-1-1 and then looked out her front window. One of the men now had a gun pointed at her husband’s head. She then ran into another room and picked up a gun just as the second man burst into her house. He came straight at her, and she fired the gun, striking him in the arm. The wounded man ran from the house, shouting to his partner that he’d been shot. The nefarious duo then ran off in opposite directions. Police had the two 16-year-old suspects in custody within minutes. (Southwest News, Bellaire, TX, 05/13/03)

 

When two armed men entered the Beyond Wireless phone store on East 38th Street in Indianapolis in an apparent robbery attempt, store manager Earl L. Dixon Jr. pulled out a gun. He then fired at one of the armed suspects, fatally wounding him. Dixon said when the two men entered and drew guns, “I thought I was going to die,” so he dropped down and retrieved a gun he kept at the business and fired two or three times at the men. Indianapolis Police Detective Bob Flack investigated the shooting and said Dixon’s actions were justified. “Weapons were pointed at him … and he defended himself,” Flack stated. (The Indianapolis Star, Indianapolis, IN, 04/29/03)

...and I know how to shoot myself, and I'm actually pretty good at it...

 

Obviously if you shot yourself and are still alive to tell about it...:eek:

What's silly? To register firearms? To ban fire arms? To confiscate firearms? I guess it depends on which end of the barrel your facing that determines the answer to that question.

 

I have never, will never, own a firearm. I do not have a problem with you owning a firearm. I do have a problem with the fact that it's really no big deal to buy a firearm, and to register it, with no further requirements for safety training or proof of responsible use/storage.

 

I agree with leatherneck that responsible gun ownership is 99% commonsense. I think though, that 50% of owners with less than 99% commonsense to their credit poses a great enough risk to require a gun saftey test requirement for even a registration.

 

I have no problem with people who collect guns, or who hunt with guns. But, I think people who say they need a gun for protection are blowing hot air and are the ones who are dangerous. Unless you lead a risky lifestyle or live in a high crime neighborhood, I don't see how anyone can justify the "need" of a gun for personal safety. It's inviting trouble.

 

 

Well kiddo, I guess I'm full of hot air or am dangerous, as I don't live a risky lifestyle or live in a high crime neighborhood (although I visit Louisville every now and then:jump:). Actually I don't feel that I "need" a gun for protection; rather I "want" a gun for protection.

 

I kind of look at it this way: a gun only weighs a couple of pounds, so if I carry it on me and I never have to use it for protection of me, my wife, my sons or my friends, its no big deal. However, if I ever have to use it for such protection, I'll be dang glad that I have it on me. While I'd like to think that the chances of needing it for protection are slim, unfortunately events like that in Va. do occur. I would not be able to live with myself, if my wife, sons or friends got killed by some evil person and I had not been able to protect them because I just didn't want to carry the weapon on me.

 

To me, its simply of matter of being able to protect myself and my loved ones if I need to. As the Va. incident points out, its unrealistic to think the police will be able to protect us. And its unrealistic to think that by banning guns we can rid society of evil persons committed to doing evil needs. If there was a big increase of gun violence in those states that allow carry concealed licenses, then I'd think your position would have more validity. But all the info that I've ever read actually indicates that in those states, gun violence has stayed the same or dropped.

[

Are you kidding? Please tell me that you are kidding.[/Quote]

 

I'm not kidding.

 

In example one, she actually put herself at greater risk by pulling a gun. Rule number one as an employee...do NOT provoke. I have Never worked for a company who placed company assets about the employees safety. Pulling the gun could have had far worse consequences than the guy stealing some stuff. He could have pulled a gun himself and made a much bigger mess.

 

In examples two and four are not the norm, and we don't know what their neighborhoods are like.

 

In example three, he was protecting his property and there was a pattern of crime toward him.

 

In example five, I say again, that her actions could VERY well have produced a dead husband had she not been lucky. What if the kid had just squeezed the trigger when he heard her shot? The gun was aimed at her husbands head!

 

Example six...have you been to 38th street in Indy? He's smart to have a gun! :lol:

 

Seriously...I don't think that the examples you provided to anything at all to dispel my belief. If anything a couple of them reinforce my belief. Because, those people got lucky.

New Zealand has had some form of firearms registration since 1921. In 1974, all revolvers lawfully held for personal security were confiscated.

 

On 10 May 1996, Australia banned most semi-automatic rifles and semi-automatic and pump shotguns. Prior to this law, many Australian states and territories had firearms registration. Owners of these newly outlawed firearms were required to surrender them (with some monetary compensation). All such firearms are to be confiscated and destroyed after a 12-month amnesty program. Roughly 600,000 of an estimated 4 million Australian guns have been surrendered to authorities and destroyed.

 

Great Britain, Ireland, Greece, Jamaica, Russia, Cuba, Bermuda and China are other countries that implemented registration that led to bans and confiscation.

 

Still think it’s “silly”?

:thumb: :thumb: Very good point, this type of "control" by a government is just wrong, plain and simple. By the way, Io do believe that I saw statistics presented one time that after all guns were banned and confiscated in these countries the crime rates went UP!! I wonder why??

 

The definition of criminal or outlaw is that you do things "AGAINST the law"..Duuuuhhhhhh , goes back to the old saying "If Guns Are Outlawed then Only Outlaws Will Have Guns!". People can get guns without them being ragistered, I myself don't mind registration but I am a law abiding citizen. Does anyone seriously think that most people that have criminal intent are going to go through a registration process? That is just crazy. They are going to buy a weapon form Joe Blow down the street or any one of many other ways to obtain a gun.

 

These are JMO and I knows that others have theirs but I think that all these so called "do gooders' " wanting more gun laws are seriously mislead.

Well kiddo, I guess I'm full of hot air or am dangerous, as I don't live a risky lifestyle or live in a high crime neighborhood (although I visit Louisville every now and then:jump:). Actually I don't feel that I "need" a gun for protection; rather I "want" a gun for protection.

 

I kind of look at it this way: a gun only weighs a couple of pounds, so if I carry it on me and I never have to use it for protection of me, my wife, my sons or my friends, its no big deal. However, if I ever have to use it for such protection, I'll be dang glad that I have it on me. While I'd like to think that the chances of needing it for protection are slim, unfortunately events like that in Va. do occur. I would not be able to live with myself, if my wife, sons or friends got killed by some evil person and I had not been able to protect them because I just didn't want to carry the weapon on me.

 

To me, its simply of matter of being able to protect myself and my loved ones if I need to. As the Va. incident points out, its unrealistic to think the police will be able to protect us. And its unrealistic to think that by banning guns we can rid society of evil persons committed to doing evil needs. If there was a big increase of gun violence in those states that allow carry concealed licenses, then I'd think your position would have more validity. But all the info that I've ever read actually indicates that in those states, gun violence has stayed the same or dropped.

 

 

Sorry if I offended you, I didn't mean to. But, on the other hand, you are a leatherneck, and I'm sure that if it doesn't hurt my feelings when people call me a bleeding heart liberal, yours aren't hurt when I imply you're full of hot air!

 

In the end, it all comes down to this for me:

 

I don't think having a gun makes one any safer than not having one. If anything, I think it makes most people more dangerous.

 

IMO, owning a gun, for whatever purpose, should be reserved for those who have been trained not only in the use of a gun, but in the decision making that must go into deciding to use the gun. I don't think that most of the people who own guns, are as level-headed as you, LN. First, you were obviously trained in not only gun saftey and gun use, but IN CONTROLLING YOUR EMOTIONS and SNAP-DECISION MAKING. There's a big difference in you and Joe Schmo Frat Boy I described above.

Are you kidding? Please tell me that you are kidding.

 

Store clerk Nicole Tucker, 21, first noticed the man wandering around Tucker’s Market around 4 p.m. when the store was very busy. He’d said he was looking for a friend. An hour later, when Tucker was alone in the store, the man returned. “I was by myself the second time,” she said. “He confronted me about money, he said, ‘Give me your money or I’ll blow your brains out.’” The man acted as though he had a gun in his pocket. As he came around the counter toward her, his view was momentarily obstructed and Tucker used that to her advantage. She grabbed the gun kept in the store, which stopped the man in his tracks. “He must have seen me with it (the gun) because he took off and ran back out the door. I followed him … I pointed the gun at him, but I never fired,” she explained. Police were on the scene within 30 seconds, but the suspect remained at large. Tucker’s coworker, Doris Clark, praised Tucker’s actions. “The only reason he didn’t get anything was that when he came around the corner, he was facing a gun,” Clark said. “She was a very brave young lady, and I compliment her very much for her bravery.” (Altavista Journal, Altavista, VA, 05/14/03)

 

A 64-year-old Tacoma, Wash., resident confined to his bed managed to defend himself when attacked by an intruder. He had just heard his wife leave the house when there was a loud bang, and then the back door was kicked in. The homeowner grabbed his gun in one hand and the phone to dial 9-1-1 with the other. That’s when a strange man entered his room, hiding his face with a handkerchief and intoning, “I’m going to get you.” According to the resident, “That’s when I shot him.” The wounded intruder and an accomplice fled, and police alerted area hospitals. The homeowner—who said he’s kept a gun in his home for protection for years, but had not fired it outside the range before the incident—said, “I’m thoroughly convinced this guy would have killed me.” (The News Tribune, Tacoma, WA, 06/03/03)

 

A Phoenix, Ariz., construction equipment company had been hit by a string of burglaries, so the owners decided to take turns standing guard at night to ward off any more thieves. Early one Tuesday morning Douglas Click, one of the owners at Arizona Hi-Lift, was guarding the company armed with a shotgun. He confronted two men who were stealing items from the equipment yard, and they attacked him with a metal rod, according to Phoenix Police Detective Tony Morales. Click responded by firing at his attackers, and one was fatally wounded. Detective Morales said no charges would be filed against Click as, “he was in fear of his life and he was being attacked.” (The Arizona Republic, Phoenix, AZ, 05/20/03)

 

A 75-year-old Independence Township, Mich., man was sitting on his couch watching television when he heard a loud noise. The homeowner went to investigate, and as he entered the kitchen he discovered three men coming in his back door, which had been kicked open. There was an exchange of gunfire between the resident and intruders, and the would-be burglars fled. Unfortunately, the man wasn’t able to provide good descriptions of the intruders for police. (The Oakland Press, Pontiac, MI, 05/13/03)

 

A south Houston, Texas, couple was loading items into their car in front of their home when two young men approached them and struck up a conversation. The woman said the men made her uncomfortable, and she immediately backed away from them. She noticed that as one man kept talking the other was moving behind her husband and kept his hand deep in his pants pocket. The woman ran inside and called 9-1-1 and then looked out her front window. One of the men now had a gun pointed at her husband’s head. She then ran into another room and picked up a gun just as the second man burst into her house. He came straight at her, and she fired the gun, striking him in the arm. The wounded man ran from the house, shouting to his partner that he’d been shot. The nefarious duo then ran off in opposite directions. Police had the two 16-year-old suspects in custody within minutes. (Southwest News, Bellaire, TX, 05/13/03)

 

When two armed men entered the Beyond Wireless phone store on East 38th Street in Indianapolis in an apparent robbery attempt, store manager Earl L. Dixon Jr. pulled out a gun. He then fired at one of the armed suspects, fatally wounding him. Dixon said when the two men entered and drew guns, “I thought I was going to die,” so he dropped down and retrieved a gun he kept at the business and fired two or three times at the men. Indianapolis Police Detective Bob Flack investigated the shooting and said Dixon’s actions were justified. “Weapons were pointed at him … and he defended himself,” Flack stated. (The Indianapolis Star, Indianapolis, IN, 04/29/03)

Great Post and Examples Ram!!!! Excellent post. :ylsuper: :ylsuper: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

There's simply no logic to owning a gun in this day and age for personal safety, unless you live in a high crime area or live a life that puts you at risk. The consitutional right to bear arms is yours, I grant you that. But, there's nothing in the costitution that says you can't be compelled to register your gun, or to present proof of you responsibility in owning the gun.

 

You said it twice, so I surmise you are not kidding. I would say it is more logical, in this day and age, to own a gun for personal safety. Home invasions and car jacking has become the crime of the decade. Used to people would rob you while they knew you were not home. Now the brazen criminals prefer to rob you while you are asleep, at home at least. Many of these home invasions also involve rape, assault, or murder as well.

 

And I know that a liberal such as your self is going to say that nothing in your house is worth loosing you life over, but the truth is that you do not know all they are going to do is take your inanimate objects, they may choose to rape your wife (not in your case), molest your child, or kill all the witnesses. I have news for you before any of this happens in my house either the criminal will die, or I will. I will not go threw life knowing that my wife was raped, my child molested, or my family killed just because I did not do something to stop it.

Obviously if you shot yourself and are still alive to tell about it...:eek:

 

Clarification for the smart alecs :

 

I know how to shoot. I have shot at targets. I have been deer hunting. I have never shot at myself.

Sorry if I offended you, I didn't mean to. But, on the other hand, you are a leatherneck, and I'm sure that if it doesn't hurt my feelings when people call me a bleeding heart liberal, yours aren't hurt when I imply you're full of hot air!

 

In the end, it all comes down to this for me:

 

I don't think having a gun makes one any safer than not having one. If anything, I think it makes most people more dangerous.

 

IMO, owning a gun, for whatever purpose, should be reserved for those who have been trained not only in the use of a gun, but in the decision making that must go into deciding to use the gun. I don't think that most of the people who own guns, are as level-headed as you, LN. First, you were obviously trained in not only gun saftey and gun use, but IN CONTROLLING YOUR EMOTIONS and SNAP-DECISION MAKING. There's a big difference in you and Joe Schmo Frat Boy I described above.

 

I wasn't too insulted. Just kidding, I wasn't insulted at all. But I think there is not the disparity in my approach towards gun ownership and the approach of others, even Joe Schmo Frat Boy. There are a whole lot of Frat Boys that own guns. Yet there are very, very few incidents of Frat Boys (or that matter any one else) causing deaths with guns as a result of irresponsible ownership or use. It just doesn't occur any where near the level that causes you to feel that way. And you can be sure that if such happened more frequently, we'd definitely hear about it from the media and the anti gun types. I have a feeling that if we compared the number of people that are alive as a result of being able to protect themselves as a result of having a gun vs. the number of people that are killed due to gun accidents, the former category would dwarf the latter category.