Forgiving Student Loans

[rjs4470]

1 minute ago, TheDeuce said:

If you don't live close to campus, you can always do online!

Online courses at UofL are $499 per credit hour. 

I should have remembered that, since I'm currently doing my MBA online (which by the way is $533/credit hour for graduate courses). That's not so bad for me, because I only take one class at a time (and I need 10 total), and I've been working for 30+years. For an undergrad taking a full 12-15 hour load, they are looking at $12-$15k/year, not including books, etc. Still beyond that $12/hour/20 hours per week job. They'd have to work one whole month just to pay for 1 CLASS, with nothing left over for anything else.

[okie1]

Local community college system in KY should be utilized a bunch.  Lots of good associate degrees and affordable.

[Voice of Reason]

2 minutes ago, okie1 said:

Local community college system in KY should be utilized a bunch.  Lots of good associate degrees and affordable.

This is a good point also. Go to community college the first year or two and you can save money that way.

 

[okie1]

One thing I will say to this topic...High Schools should really have a person or 2 that are educated in financial aid and school loans etc...high schools should counsel all students and their parents on packages during their senior year.

[rjs4470]

8 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

 

 

We can debate the details and work out a complete budget if you want. For example, tax rate at that income level is less than 15%. However the numbers here support it is within range. Work full time for 3 months in the summer and you have enough to cover books, food, and everything else. Get a job paying 15, 18 even 20 an hour (they are out there) for the summer. Add in KEES money if you made good grades in high school. 

Bottom line, yes it is realistic and achievable to attend college and get a degree with minimal or zero loans.

You've added a few more "ifs" which may or may not be possible depending on where you live. $15-$20 an hour jobs are available, but not everywhere. We are lucky here in NKY with employers like Amazon, Fedex, UPS, (some of which chip in for your tuition in addition to paying a good wage) but not every area has those types of employers. In addition, the summer job market can be very competitive, and full time isn't always available..for example retailers slowest times are in the summer, and that's a market that employs a lot of college kids. 

KEES money is also a really nice benefit here in KY (it certainly helped us out with our 3 kids), but again, not every state has that type of program. I'm not sure, but I think most don't. 

I'm willing to give a little and admit it's not impossible to work your way through college. But it's also not as easy of a slam dunk as you're portraying, especially if you look at the entire country as a whole, and not just our little neck of the woods.

[TheDeuce]

20 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

We can debate the details and work out a complete budget if you want. For example, tax rate at that income level is less than 15%. However the numbers here support it is within range. Work full time for 3 months in the summer and you have enough to cover books, food, and everything else. Get a job paying 15, 18 even 20 an hour (they are out there) for the summer. Add in KEES money if you made good grades in high school. 

Bottom line, yes it is realistic and achievable to attend college and get a degree with minimal or zero loans.

I adjusted using your numbers. 

$12/hr at 20 hours per week is $240/wk. 

40 weeks (took out 3 months for summer), $240 x 40 = $9,600.

12 weeks @ $20/hr and 40 hours = $9,600

Total income (pre-tax) = $19,200

$19,200 x 15% tax rate = $16,230 new annual income

Let’s assume you make a 4.0 GPA all through high school, and you score 28 or better on the ACT to maximize your KEES money. That’d be an additional $2,000 per year. So $18,230.

Books at Morehead (per their website) will be at least $1,000 per year. $17,230. (This is on the VERY low end, btw)

Taking the lowest tuition from before (Morehead), $17,230 - $9,082 = $8,148 or $679 per month to live on.

Again… No food, no gas, no doctor, no insurance, no cell phone, no entertainment.

[TheDeuce]

12 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

This is the biggest ripoff in colleges today. 

____________________________

As to the laugh on the post above, facts are facts. If you don't think it is possible, I can connect you with someone who is doing it right now.

We're not arguing if it's possible... Nobody said it was impossible. That's not what you said. 

[Voice of Reason]

9 hours ago, Voice of Reason said:

College education is still affordable. Live at home. Work part time, 20 hours week at $12 an hour and you don't even need a loan.

 

35 minutes ago, TheDeuce said:

We're not arguing if it's possible... Nobody said it was impossible. That's not what you said. 

College education is still affordable.

That is what I said and that is my point.

___________________________

The majority of the people who accrue large loans are making personal choices on what they want in their college. Attending Notre Dame to get a degree in teaching is a personal choice and I don't feel my tax dollars should be used to relieve those loans.

[rjs4470]

1 hour ago, Voice of Reason said:

 

College education is still affordable.

That is what I said and that is my point.

___________________________

The majority of the people who accrue large loans are making personal choices on what they want in their college. Attending Notre Dame to get a degree in teaching is a personal choice and I don't feel my tax dollars should be used to relieve those loans.

That's painting a very broad stroke. None of us have any idea on what goes into the "personal choice" this "majority"  is making. I would agree that going to ND for a teaching degree might not be the best choice. But is it really up to you or I to decide what the correct choice is? And what if the ND teaching degree turns into a future superintendent, curriculum writer, or develops some new method of teaching or learning that has a profound impact on thousands of kids. Or even if they become a great teacher. Is a great teacher really not worth your tax dollar? Should they initially be denied ND because "we" don't think it's a good choice. And what level would it become a good choice? Aren't we the same people begging for teachers? Yes you could argue they could accomplish the same thing at a lower priced school. But maybe that one professor who could inspire them was at ND. The point is, it's not up us to decide what someone else's "choice" should be, or to put a price tag/or value on it. Only that person can really make that decision. And there are far too many students that have no choice in the matter....it's either get loans or don't go to school. And the crazy cost of college across the board leaves too many students in dire straits from either not choosing not to go or graduating with a ton of debt. College is not universally affordable for all. For some, yes. But certainly not all.

[TheDeuce]

55 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

 

College education is still affordable.

That is what I said and that is my point.

___________________________

The majority of the people who accrue large loans are making personal choices on what they want in their college. Attending Notre Dame to get a degree in teaching is a personal choice and I don't feel my tax dollars should be used to relieve those loans.

Affordability is subjective. 

I can afford a Lamborghini payment, as long as I don’t have any other expenses. That doesn’t make a Lambo affordable. 

If you have to live on $500 a month or take out loans to attend, college isn’t affordable. 

[The Raven]

On 5/9/2022 at 3:01 AM, OlDog75 said:

If you BORROW money, you pay it back.

That is part of the problem.   17 or 18 year olds coming out of HS don't know how to properly borrow money.  If the need 5K to cover a semester but the loan depts offer 12K, they take the whole 12.  Then instead of paying back 5 with interest (which in itself isn't easy) they are stuck paying back way more on money they never really needed.

[Colonels_Wear_Blue]

How many students with college loans go to the bar every weekend with the crowd? And head down to Myrtle Beach with the crowd for fall break and to Panama City for spring break? ...are you telling me that I have to pay a loan back for that kid because he doesn't have enough to cover what he borrowed?

Hell, belonging to a fraternity or sorority is like $1000+ a semester. So a student can borrow college money to save personal funds for that garbage, and they foot us with the bill because "college costs should be forgiven"?

And to be clear, this isn't "forgiving" loans. This is handing off debt for other people to pay.

[TheDeuce]

4 minutes ago, Colonels_Wear_Blue said:

How many students with college loans go to the bar every weekend with the crowd? And head down to Myrtle Beach with the crowd for fall break and to Panama City for spring break? ...are you telling me that I have to pay a loan back for that kid because he doesn't have enough to cover what he borrowed?

Hell, belonging to a fraternity or sorority is like $1000+ a semester. So a student can borrow college money to save personal funds for that garbage, and they foot us with the bill because "college costs should be forgiven"?

And to be clear, this isn't "forgiving" loans. This is handing off debt for other people to pay.

You pay for all kinds of things all the time that you don't benefit from. 

If we were talking about paying back $5,000 for borrowing $5,000, I wouldn't be on the forgiveness train. I'm talking about having to pay $15,000 for borrowing $5,000. 

[Colonels_Wear_Blue]

1 minute ago, TheDeuce said:

You pay for all kinds of things all the time that you don't benefit from. 

If we were talking about paying back $5,000 for borrowing $5,000, I wouldn't be on the forgiveness train. I'm talking about having to pay $15,000 for borrowing $5,000. 

Agreed...and I think quite a bit of that is a bunch of crap, to be honest.

[rjs4470]

37 minutes ago, Colonels_Wear_Blue said:

How many students with college loans go to the bar every weekend with the crowd? And head down to Myrtle Beach with the crowd for fall break and to Panama City for spring break? ...are you telling me that I have to pay a loan back for that kid because he doesn't have enough to cover what he borrowed?

Hell, belonging to a fraternity or sorority is like $1000+ a semester. So a student can borrow college money to save personal funds for that garbage, and they foot us with the bill because "college costs should be forgiven"?

And to be clear, this isn't "forgiving" loans. This is handing off debt for other people to pay.

Yes college kids go on spring break….some of them.  But not all of them. And yes, college kids party. And yes, some that do may have loans. But  Agetting mad at all college kids for the 10-20 or 25% that do go, or the bunch that does party, does not change the fact that reform and change is needed in the area of the cost of college, and what many times turn out to be predatory loans.