39 minutes ago, TheDeuce said:

You pay for all kinds of things all the time that you don't benefit from. 

If we were talking about paying back $5,000 for borrowing $5,000, I wouldn't be on the forgiveness train. I'm talking about having to pay $15,000 for borrowing $5,000. 

Here’s the thing. We DO benefit. Those students become our teachers, doctors, therapists, etc and with their education many, many do great things for society. Yes, there are some that don’t. But we don’t have enough people in some of these key roles (like teachers). Is developing these key roles not worth some Tax dollars, at least in the short term?

For what it's worth, I paid off my loans. And despite making good money, and saving from almost day one, my kids still needed loans to complete their schooling. And two of the 3 that have graduated, are actively and gainfully employed in important positions that benefit all of society (teaching and occupational therapy), and are on track to pay their loans off. They were lucky to have gotten what help they did because of who their parents were. Not all kids have had or will have the same fortune. And not all kids are binge drinking, spring breaking crazy kids.

34 minutes ago, rjs4470 said:

Here’s the thing. We DO benefit. Those students become our teachers, doctors, therapists, etc and with their education many, many do great things for society. Yes, there are some that don’t. But we don’t have enough people in some of these key roles (like teachers). Is developing these key roles not worth some Tax dollars, at least in the short term?

For what it's worth, I paid off my loans. And despite making good money, and saving from almost day one, my kids still needed loans to complete their schooling. And two of the 3 that have graduated, are actively and gainfully employed in important positions that benefit all of society (teaching and occupational therapy), and are on track to pay their loans off. They were lucky to have gotten what help they did because of who their parents were. Not all kids have had or will have the same fortune. And not all kids are binge drinking, spring breaking crazy kids.

My fiancé is an OT and we'll be paying on her loans for eternity. 

57 minutes ago, rjs4470 said:

Yes college kids go on spring break….some of them.  But not all of them. And yes, college kids party. And yes, some that do may have loans. But getting mad at all college kids for the 10-20 or 25% that do go, or the bunch that does party, does not change the fact that reform and change is needed in the area of the cost of college, and what many times turn out to be predatory loans. 

I'm all about tuition reform for higher education....ALL ABOUT IT. And I've said for years that I genuinely question whether or not college text book publishers would end up in jail for organized crime if anyone ever went after them with RICO charges.

Sure, change that stuff all day long.

But please, don't try to teach young adults fiscal responsibility by taking what is more than likely their first loan and saying, "Oh, don't worry, you don't have to bother paying that one back."

2 minutes ago, Colonels_Wear_Blue said:

But please, don't try to teach young adults fiscal responsibility by taking what is more than likely their first loan and saying, "Oh, don't worry, you don't have to bother paying that one back."

How do we address the issue of them being taken advantage of on their first loan?

6 minutes ago, Colonels_Wear_Blue said:

I'm all about tuition reform for higher education....ALL ABOUT IT. And I've said for years that I genuinely question whether or not college text book publishers would end up in jail for organized crime if anyone ever went after them with RICO charges.

Sure, change that stuff all day long.

But please, don't try to teach young adults fiscal responsibility by taking what is more than likely their first loan and saying, "Oh, don't worry, you don't have to bother paying that one back."

So the question, is where does reform begin, especially in the short term? Do we continue to let kids get raked over the coals by predatory lenders and institutions with skyrocketing tuition because we want to teach them a finance lesson?

4 minutes ago, TheDeuce said:

How do we address the issue of them being taken advantage of on their first loan?

If no laws were broken in providing the loans, I don't see how we can punish predatory lenders. We can make new laws that make their lending practices illegal in the future though. Some lessons in life are learned the hard way. Some of them suck really, really hard. That's a shame. But why am I being turned to to help pay for other people being taken advantage of in a loan that I had absolutely nothing to do with and had no say in?
 

2 minutes ago, rjs4470 said:

So the question, is where does reform begin, especially in the short term? Do we continue to let kids get raked over the coals by predatory lenders and institutions with skyrocketing tuition because we want to teach them a finance lesson?

The simple solution....do away with privatized school loans until school loans can be reformed in law. If that means someone has to go to a cheaper school because they can't afford the more expensive school on their own, or even if it means someone putting off college until they can work out the financial end of things for themselves, so be it.

Again, though, why am I being asked to help foot the bill for someone's poor financial decision? Is there really a financial lesson in forgiving a loan in the first place?

My wife's grandma was recently taken advantage of by a con artist, but she's out of luck - there aren't any laws out there to pay her back.

If someone is taken advantage of in a Ponzie scheme and loses their money, do they turn around and get reimbursed by the entire rest of the working US populous just because they were taken advantage of? (No, they don't.)

2 minutes ago, Colonels_Wear_Blue said:

If no laws were broken in providing the loans, I don't see how we can punish predatory lenders. We can make new laws that make their lending practices illegal in the future though. Some lessons in life are learned the hard way. Some of them suck really, really hard. That's a shame. But why am I being turned to to help pay for other people being taken advantage of in a loan that I had absolutely nothing to do with and had no say in?
 

The simple solution....do away with privatized school loans until school loans can be reformed in law. If that means someone has to go to a cheaper school because they can't afford the more expensive school on their own, or even if it means someone putting off college until they can work out the financial end of things for themselves, so be it.

Again, though, why am I being asked to help foot the bill for someone's poor financial decision? Is there really a financial lesson in forgiving a loan in the first place?

My wife's grandma was recently taken advantage of by a con artist, but she's out of luck - there aren't any laws out there to pay her back.

If someone is taken advantage of in a Ponzie scheme and loses their money, do they turn around and get reimbursed by the entire rest of the working US populous just because they were taken advantage of? (No, they don't.)

I get it. Life can be tough. And it is way too easy to get these loans, and college is way too expensive. The thing that gives me pause, and makes this situation different from the ones you mention is the overall benefit that society receives when many, many of these students move into their careers, careers they couldn't have had without the education. Our economy, our education system, our healthcare system, (and many other "systems") absolutely depends on these students and a constant supply of an educated workforce. 

 

2 minutes ago, rjs4470 said:

I get it. Life can be tough. And it is way too easy to get these loans, and college is way too expensive. The thing that gives me pause, and makes this situation different from the ones you mention is the overall benefit that society receives when many, many of these students move into their careers, careers they couldn't have had without the education. Our economy, our education system, our healthcare system, (and many other "systems") absolutely depends on these students and a constant supply of an educated workforce. 

The fact that it's for education makes it even worse, for me. 

Once I was out of school and the loan came due, I aggressively paid on it to get it behind me. 

I don't begrudge anyone getting their note paid off, just feel like a sucker putting my kid through college without them.

It is a comedy of errors that got us to this point. I do think it is important for the "well I had to pay for my college loan by working PT hours" crowd (I paid back mine, too) to acknowledge that it is not an apples to apples comparison. "Everyone deserves a chance at college" is a mantra chanted for years with little foresight to what that would mean in the long haul. We ingrained this into everyone's psyche and here we are. Now the college degree is as devalued as ever and not nearly worth what it costs to repay. Gotta wonder if all these other countries are on to something when they offer free, or much cheaper, higher educational opportunities than what we have in the USA. ? Here it is nothing more than a multi-billion dollar business.

And no, I'm not necessarily advocating for a wipeout of all student loan debt and believe it is silly there has been a freeze on any repayments the last couple years.

22 hours ago, okie1 said:

One thing I will say to this topic...High Schools should really have a person or 2 that are educated in financial aid and school loans etc...high schools should counsel all students and their parents on packages during their senior year.

I've been to several graduations over the past five years, and just about every one of them is "proud to announce" that xyz number of students is going to continue their education in college.  That is always announced before the number of kids going into the military, or before the number of kids going to a vocational school, or before the number of kids who've already got a job lined up.  It is bragged upon.  It's what a high school hangs its hat on.  So, if high schools being "honest" about college/expectations/costs would drop that number by 15%...they would not do it.  They'd think it'd reflect badly on them.

We, as a society, have accepted the norm for the high school education to be "college prep".  And, if you don't do it, then you're often seen/considered a failure.  So, that's the route that a majority of kids take (or more likely, are pressured to take).  Colleges know this.  They know you'll do just about anything to come to them.  So, it doesn't matter what the curriculum is, and how many electives/gen ed classes you're forced to take (and pay for), or how much per class hour you've got to pay...you're going to do it.  And hey, if you change your mind two years in and want to change your major...they'll be more than glad to let you do it...for a price.