Hue Jackson: Andy Dalton “on the cusp of something really good”

[theguru]

Understand what? Since they came in the same year, I was just posting both sets of stats, I honestly wasn't trying to make any point. I do think they are closer than most would think in terms of productivity and value, but that wasn't the intent of my posting.

 

They are both going to get paid, of that there is no doubt.

 

For the record, Cam has stated he will not holdout, Andy hasn't made that declaration. I'm on record as saying if I was his agent, I wouldn't be excited about my guy playing QB in the last year of a deal. Further, if I'm the Bengals, I don't want my fans to hate my starting QB more than they already do, so they may not want to paint Andy into the corner to see what happens.

 

I understand a case can be made to pay Dalton in the mid to high teens and comparing him to Cam makes it hard to deny. However, I believe public perception is the majority of people would take Cam over Andy and using that model Dalton doesn't command as much green.

 

Also, I am not convinced the Bengals won't take a QB in the draft. Maybe not in R1 or R2, but I think it is possible they draft one this year.

 

If I were the Bengals unless Dalton gives a discount, I would at least wait until after the draft.

 

Additionally, I wonder what Dalton would bring on the open market?

[Bengal Maniac]

I understand a case can be made to pay Dalton in the mid to high teens and comparing him to Cam makes it hard to deny. However, I believe public perception is the majority of people would take Cam over Andy and using that model Dalton doesn't command as much green.

 

Also, I am not convinced the Bengals won't take a QB in the draft. Maybe not in R1 or R2, but I think it is possible they draft one this year.

 

If I were the Bengals unless Dalton gives a discount, I would at least wait until after the draft.

 

Additionally, I wonder what Dalton would bring on the open market?

On the open market it only takes 1 and better yet for him only two teams that like him, not 32. he would get Stafford, Romo, Cutler $$. We are way to close to the situation here. Tell me the Browns, Jags, Raiders, Bills, Jets wouldn't want to be in the playoffs the last three years. It is a QB driven league and like it or not, he has 48 games of of very good stats. His agent will settle for nothing less. There are no home team discounts with QB's this young and productive.

[John Anthony]

On the open market it only takes 1 and better yet for him only two teams that like him' date=' not 32. he would get Stafford, Romo, Cutler $$. We are way to close to the situation here. Tell me the Browns, Jags, Raiders, Bills, Jets wouldn't want to be in the playoffs the last three years. It is a QB driven league and like it or not, he has 48 games of of very good stats. His agent will settle for nothing less. There are no home team discounts with QB's this young and productive.[/quote']

 

As long as he brings Green with him catch his floaters they may sneak into the playoffs.

[theguru]

As long as he brings Green with him catch his floaters they may sneak into the playoffs.

 

Great point!

 

Look at the offensive weapons the Bengals have surrounded Dalton with. And the Bengals don't really have a deep passing game, all they really have is Green using his superior ability to catch Dalton's terrible down-field passes.

[futurecoach]

Hue Jackson was right in what he said number 2 was and that is being able to win big games. I know they did beat some good teams actually during the regular season last year, however Dalton still didn't play that well in those games either. It's just the team itself was very talented around him and was able to overcome his play. However in the playoffs your QB has to play well, or the amount of talent you have around the QB means nothing.

[John Anthony]

Great point! Look at the offensive weapons the Bengals have surrounded Dalton with. And the Bengals don't really have a deep passing game' date=' all they really have is Green using his superior ability to catch Dalton's terrible down-field passes.[/quote']

 

Culpepper without Moss wasn't pretty and he had an arm. Money makes average people look good and receivers make average QBs look good.

[Content1]

Let's try this again:

 

Hue Jackson: "On the verge of something good watching his running backs move the ball down field, while limiting passing mistakes, and poor clock management."

 

:sarcastic:

[Voice of Reason]

Great point!

 

Look at the offensive weapons the Bengals have surrounded Dalton with. And the Bengals don't really have a deep passing game, all they really have is Green using his superior ability to catch Dalton's terrible down-field passes.

 

Perception versus reality. I don't have the exact stats, but I do know that Dalton was one of the best QB's in the league last year in long pass completions. There is the perception that he has a weak arm and can't complete long balls that the stats prove wrong. But people will refuse to believe the reality because they buy the media story.

 

Also, Green was not good last year in a couple key pass categories but everyone stills buys into him as so elite he carries Dalton. I believe Green was bad in the drops category last year, for one.

[futurecoach]

Perception versus reality. I don't have the exact stats, but I do know that Dalton was one of the best QB's in the league last year in long pass completions. There is the perception that he has a weak arm and can't complete long balls that the stats prove wrong. But people will refuse to believe the reality because they buy the media story.

 

Also, Green was not good last year in a couple key pass categories but everyone stills buys into him as so elite he carries Dalton. I believe Green was bad in the drops category last year, for one.

 

It is also a reality that Dalton last year had one of the best WR corps in the league to throw to, and one of the best deep threats in Green and an emerging one in Jones. These guys were able to get open a lot down field to give him a chance to get these completions. While I don't think his arm is as bad as some say, it is still not great. When I look at this and the passes he did complete that were long, I don't see many QB's who wouldn't have completed those passes. In fact some of the long completions were great catches by the WR's. There were also many completions that probably would have been even bigger plays if the throws were not underthrown or even over thrown when a guy had to dive for it. There were also many times when guys were open down field and his throw goes straight out of bounds over their heads without giving them a chance.

 

So yes his completions on long passes were one of the best in the NFL, however that also has a lot to do with his WR core being able to get open enough for him down field and making the catches. Very few long throws he had where I wouldn't have thought other QB's would have completed it.

 

Honestly the best game I have ever seen him throw the long ball was the playoff game last year. He did look really good on the long ball that day.

[Bengal Maniac]

It is also a reality that Dalton last year had one of the best WR corps in the league to throw to, and one of the best deep threats in Green and an emerging one in Jones. These guys were able to get open a lot down field to give him a chance to get these completions. While I don't think his arm is as bad as some say, it is still not great. When I look at this and the passes he did complete that were long, I don't see many QB's who wouldn't have completed those passes. In fact some of the long completions were great catches by the WR's. There were also many completions that probably would have been even bigger plays if the throws were not underthrown or even over thrown when a guy had to dive for it. There were also many times when guys were open down field and his throw goes straight out of bounds over their heads without giving them a chance.

 

So yes his completions on long passes were one of the best in the NFL, however that also has a lot to do with his WR core being able to get open enough for him down field and making the catches. Very few long throws he had where I wouldn't have thought other QB's would have completed it.

 

Honestly the best game I have ever seen him throw the long ball was the playoff game last year. He did look really good on the long ball that day.

 

The stats are the stats, you either complete them or you don't. All QB's miss some and get some help on some. Last year against the Lions the Bengals had CJ covered with three backs and he catches the pass. Was it a great pass, probably not, but Stafford had it where CJ could make a play. So, Andy does throw it up where AJ has a chance many times. That is not unusual. I don't think he has a great arm, like you say, but it is NFL quality. Yes he threw some out of bounds, BUT he completed in the top tier on the long ball.

 

As we all know (well most), he is a good NFL QB, but he has to perform in the playoffs. Regardless, he will get paid, either by the Bengals or some one else.

 

AJ is a whole different story. I am not sure they will pay him what he can get. They should, but he is going to ask and get CJ $$. I am not certain the Bengals will do that.

[George Amberson]

I understand a case can be made to pay Dalton in the mid to high teens and comparing him to Cam makes it hard to deny. However, I believe public perception is the majority of people would take Cam over Andy and using that model Dalton doesn't command as much green.

 

Also, I am not convinced the Bengals won't take a QB in the draft. Maybe not in R1 or R2, but I think it is possible they draft one this year.

 

If I were the Bengals unless Dalton gives a discount, I would at least wait until after the draft.

 

Additionally, I wonder what Dalton would bring on the open market?

 

Not to mention the talent Dalton has had to work with has been so much better than what Cam has had to work with. One found himself being drafted by the worst team (that year) in the NFL and who basically gave Cam one good wide receiver (an older Steve Smith), while the other got to step into one of the strongest teams (talent wise) in the NFL. Not a comparison IMO.

[futurecoach]

The stats are the stats, you either complete them or you don't. All QB's miss some and get some help on some. Last year against the Lions the Bengals had CJ covered with three backs and he catches the pass. Was it a great pass, probably not, but Stafford had it where CJ could make a play. So, Andy does throw it up where AJ has a chance many times. That is not unusual. I don't think he has a great arm, like you say, but it is NFL quality. Yes he threw some out of bounds, BUT he completed in the top tier on the long ball.

 

As we all know (well most), he is a good NFL QB, but he has to perform in the playoffs. Regardless, he will get paid, either by the Bengals or some one else.

 

AJ is a whole different story. I am not sure they will pay him what he can get. They should, but he is going to ask and get CJ $$. I am not certain the Bengals will do that.

 

Once again dalton had a better wr core than most. He probably also has more guys who get open deep than most because teams dare him to beat them deep and that is reality. It is also reality that most of the deep balls he did complete were throws most complete. But he also had many deep throws where he didnt even give a wr a chance on a deep ball because of it being so unaccurate and going out of bounds. Reality is most qbs probably complete just as many and give their receivers even a better chance on the other ones than dalton. Because reality is people dont fear dalton beating them deep so he has more open chances and still misses open guys alot. So his deep ball completions probably should be better.

[futurecoach]

Not to mention the talent Dalton has had to work with has been so much better than what Cam has had to work with. One found himself being drafted by the worst team (that year) in the NFL and who basically gave Cam one good wide receiver (an older Steve Smith), while the other got to step into one of the strongest teams (talent wise) in the NFL. Not a comparison IMO.

 

Huh? Dalton came to a team that had no receivers besides a talented rookie. A grumpy runningback, a beat up offensive line. A brand new oc, a head coach that should have been fired because they only won 4 games. There were people saying they may not win a game or at most two. Majority of people didnt think they were talented. Only one person I know who thought they would do well that year and that was me lol.

 

Now they have ended up making a very talented team during these three years though. Howver his rookie year they were not one of the most talented teams yet.

[George Amberson]

Huh? Dalton came to a team that had no receivers besides a talented rookie. A grumpy runningback, a beat up offensive line. A brand new oc, a head coach that should have been fired because they only won 4 games. There were people saying they may not win a game or at most two. Majority of people didnt think they were talented. Only one person I know who thought they would do well that year and that was me lol.

 

Now they have ended up making a very talented team during these three years though. Howver his rookie year they were not one of the most talented teams yet.

 

That was a mistake on my part I didn't mean to leave off the fact that he came into a Bengals team that had just won 4 games. He has had a lot more talent to work with than Cam has throughout his career was my main point.

[Voice of Reason]

Once again dalton had a better wr core than most. He probably also has more guys who get open deep than most because teams dare him to beat them deep and that is reality. It is also reality that most of the deep balls he did complete were throws most complete. But he also had many deep throws where he didnt even give a wr a chance on a deep ball because of it being so unaccurate and going out of bounds. Reality is most qbs probably complete just as many and give their receivers even a better chance on the other ones than dalton. Because reality is people dont fear dalton beating them deep so he has more open chances and still misses open guys alot. So his deep ball completions probably should be better.

 

FC ... I hesitate to enter a debate with you. You believe what you want to believe. For the others reading along, I will comment that your argument about Dalton having really good receivers is a moot point. It doesn't matter if he has the greatest receivers in the NFL (which he definitely does not), Dalton still has to have the arm to get them the ball. If he was one of leading QB's in the NFL last year at completing long balls, he deserves credit and it flies in the face of those who want to say he can't complete long balls.

 

On the receivers, if you are trying to claim Marvin Jones is a top NFL receiver, please do not look at stats to try and back that claim. He was #53 in yards and tied for #72 in receptions. Green is a great one but he had a bit of an off year last year with all the drops.