Governor Cuomo to Catholics: You're not welcome in NY

[Bluegrasscard]

This quote was out of context. It was addressed at politicians running for office, not the entire populace. He was saying that the politicians are out of step.

 

And it was Fox that played or read the whole quote and corrected the implication that it was directed at all people.

 

Still a little over the top. But not as bad as portrayed.

[LIPTON BASH]

This quote was out of context. It was addressed at politicians running for office, not the entire populace. He was saying that the politicians are out of step.

 

And it was Fox that played or read the whole quote and corrected the implication that it was directed at all people.

 

Still a little over the top. But not as bad as portrayed.

 

It was out a little out of context. But it does seem silly to label pro life or pro gun right extreme when latest polls show that is a majority of America .

[All Tell]

It was out a little out of context. But it does seem silly to label pro life or pro gun right extreme when latest polls show that is a majority of America .

 

Those in favor of infanticide and gun restrictions want everyone to believe that they are in the majority.

[Jim Schue]

Those in favor of infanticide and gun restrictions want everyone to believe that they are in the majority.

 

But the true fact is it's us folks in the middle with a jumbled mess of beliefs who are the true majority, not the ideological purity nuts on both end of the spectrum who seem to be dominating the political dialogue in this country.

[All Tell]

That may be true but it sticks out like a loud fart in church that he didn't call out the extreme left wingers (like NYC's new mayor) and tell them that they are unwelcome.

[Colonels_Wear_Blue]

Cuomo is a Roman Catholic. So why hasn't he been excommunicated? Perhaps the church is more inclusive than we thought.

 

There are two types of excommunication: Latae and Ferendae Sententiae.

 

Latae excommunications are essentially "automatic", as they occur by God's had as soon as one of a specific number of acts is committed. A few examples: Desecration of the Holy Communion, total rejection of the Christian faith, people who procure or facilitate successful abortions (includes doctors and nurses performing abortions as well as politicians and members of government who fight to legalize abortion or keep abortion legal), attacking the pope (physically attacking him), and heresy.

 

Ferendae Sententiae excommunications take place through ecclesiastical council....meaning they are actually called to the carpet by their bishop/cardinal, and they go through a formal hearing process where it is determined whether or not they will be excommunicated.

 

Cuomo is a Roman Catholic member of the government who most definitely fights to keep abortion legal. As such, his excommunication falls under the Latae category, and he thereby IS excommunicated.

[Twotoplace]

There are two types of excommunication: Latae and Ferendae Sententiae.

 

Latae excommunications are essentially "automatic", as they occur by God's had as soon as one of a specific number of acts is committed. A few examples: Desecration of the Holy Communion, total rejection of the Christian faith, people who procure or facilitate successful abortions (includes doctors and nurses performing abortions as well as politicians and members of government who fight to legalize abortion or keep abortion legal), attacking the pope (physically attacking him), and heresy.

 

Ferendae Sententiae excommunications take place through ecclesiastical council....meaning they are actually called to the carpet by their bishop/cardinal, and they go through a formal hearing process where it is determined whether or not they will be excommunicated.

 

Cuomo is a Roman Catholic member of the government who most definitely fights to keep abortion legal. As such, his excommunication falls under the Latae category, and he thereby IS excommunicated.

So do politicians like Cuomo, Biden, Kerry actually actually get letters telling them to turn in their K of C swords and hats? Seems to me that all this tough talk about excommunication is just that -- talk. I don't recall ever reading stories saying the church has excommunicated politician so-and-so.

[Colonels_Wear_Blue]

So do politicians like Cuomo, Biden, Kerry actually actually get letters telling them to turn in their K of C swords and hats?

 

No.

 

Seems to me that all this tough talk about excommunication is just that -- talk. I don't recall ever reading stories saying the church has excommunicated politician so-and-so.

 

This is a matter of faith. As I stated above, Catholics believe that Latae excommunications occur by God's hand, and that the individual is excommunicated from the instant that the offense is committed. I'll grant you that, yes, the priests in their parishes should be denying them Communion when they attend mass, assuming those individuals are attending mass (excommunication does not remove you of your obligation to attend mass), however, there is no formal proceeding or notice given in cases of Latae excommunication. If I have committed murder, as a Catholic, it is taught that I should be aware of the fact that intentionally killing another human a grave enough sin that it puts me in a state of excommunication with the Catholic Church. Priests do not check the docket at the courthouse and check headlines to see who has been convicted of murder in order to send out 'excommunication notices'. It is on the murderer's shoulders to be responsible to their Catholic faith and make sure that they have properly gone about the process of seeking and receiving absolution before fully participating in mass and receiving Communion again.

 

In the end, it is on the shoulders of the individual Catholic to be responsible to the laws of the Catholic Church and to prepare their soul to meet God when they receive His judgment. If they choose to disobey teachings of the Church by participating in Communion while in a state of excommunication (which constitutes another grave, excommunicate-able offense: desecrating the Holy Eucharist), then in the end, the greatest effect of that decision will be its effect on that person's soul and whether or not they receive their eternal reward in Heaven, or eternal damnation in Hell.

[All Tell]

Isn't it amazing how those that preach tolerance the most seem to be the most intolerant of people who have views different than theirs?

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[Twotoplace]

No.

 

 

 

This is a matter of faith. As I stated above, Catholics believe that Latae excommunications occur by God's hand, and that the individual is excommunicated from the instant that the offense is committed. I'll grant you that, yes, the priests in their parishes should be denying them Communion when they attend mass, assuming those individuals are attending mass (excommunication does not remove you of your obligation to attend mass), however, there is no formal proceeding or notice given in cases of Latae excommunication. If I have committed murder, as a Catholic, it is taught that I should be aware of the fact that intentionally killing another human a grave enough sin that it puts me in a state of excommunication with the Catholic Church. Priests do not check the docket at the courthouse and check headlines to see who has been convicted of murder in order to send out 'excommunication notices'. It is on the murderer's shoulders to be responsible to their Catholic faith and make sure that they have properly gone about the process of seeking and receiving absolution before fully participating in mass and receiving Communion again.

 

In the end, it is on the shoulders of the individual Catholic to be responsible to the laws of the Catholic Church and to prepare their soul to meet God when they receive His judgment. If they choose to disobey teachings of the Church by participating in Communion while in a state of excommunication (which constitutes another grave, excommunicate-able offense: desecrating the Holy Eucharist), then in the end, the greatest effect of that decision will be its effect on that person's soul and whether or not they receive their eternal reward in Heaven, or eternal damnation in Hell.

Let me take this one step further. Have Cuomo or Kerry or Biden or Pelosi ever been issued a summons to appear before one of these ecclesiastical councils? If not, why not?

 

By the way, I appreciate your scholarship and detailed explanation. More people should follow your example instead of simply posting snide comments.

[Colonels_Wear_Blue]

Let me take this one step further. Have Cuomo or Kerry or Biden or Pelosi ever been issued a summons to appear before one of these ecclesiastical councils? If not, why not?

 

No, they have not. They have not because their offenses (fighting to maintain the legallity of abortion, and thereby facilitating the legal obtainment of abortions) constitute Latae excommunications. Latae excommunications do not involve ecclesiastical councils.

 

If Andrew Cuomo, John Kerry, Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi are truly Catholic believers, they should understand that they are in a state of grave sin, and are excommunicated by simply having committed that sin.

[Twotoplace]

No, they have not. They have not because their offenses (fighting to maintain the legallity of abortion, and thereby facilitating the legal obtainment of abortions) constitute Latae excommunications. Latae excommunications do not involve ecclesiastical councils.

 

If Andrew Cuomo, John Kerry, Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi are truly Catholic believers, they should understand that they are in a state of grave sin, and are excommunicated by simply having committed that sin.

Is one also in a state of grave sin if one votes for Biden, Pelosi etc. knowing their stand on abortion? Taking it a step further, is one also in a state of grave sin if one votes the Democratic ticket, whose party platform supports a woman's right to choose? This could be highly problematic for the church because Obama got about 50 percent of the Catholic vote in the last election.

[nkypete]

No, they have not. They have not because their offenses (fighting to maintain the legallity of abortion, and thereby facilitating the legal obtainment of abortions) constitute Latae excommunications. Latae excommunications do not involve ecclesiastical councils.

 

If Andrew Cuomo, John Kerry, Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi are truly Catholic believers, they should understand that they are in a state of grave sin, and are excommunicated by simply having committed that sin.

 

What is sad is that they probably don't care. But they do care about catching some portion of the Catholic vote.

[Colonels_Wear_Blue]

Is one also in a state of grave sin if one votes for Biden, Pelosi etc. knowing their stand on abortion? Taking it a step further, is one also in a state of grave sin if one votes the Democratic ticket, whose party platform supports a woman's right to choose?

 

I'd have to do some further research as to whether or not simply voting for a pro-abortion politician is considered a grave sin. However, it is absolutely considered to be a sin. See point #22 of the Vatican's Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith in their 1974 "Declaration on Procured Abortion":

 

22. Man may never obey a law which is in itself immoral, and such is the case of a law which would admit in principle the liceity of abortion. Nor can he take part in a propaganda campaign in favor of such a law or vote for it. Moreover, he may not collaborate in its application. It is, for instance, inadmissible that doctors or nurses should find themselves obligated to cooperate closely in abortions and have to choose between the law of God and their professional situation.

 

This could be highly problematic for the church because Obama got about 50 percent of the Catholic vote in the last election.

 

You're absolutely right. This IS a problem. However, just because a lot of Catholics are doing it doesn't make it right, nor does it change the Catholic Church's stance on the matter. If everyone else jumped off a bridge....

[Bert]

There are two types of excommunication: Latae and Ferendae Sententiae.

 

Latae excommunications are essentially "automatic", as they occur by God's had as soon as one of a specific number of acts is committed. A few examples: Desecration of the Holy Communion, total rejection of the Christian faith, people who procure or facilitate successful abortions (includes doctors and nurses performing abortions as well as politicians and members of government who fight to legalize abortion or keep abortion legal), attacking the pope (physically attacking him), and heresy.

 

Ferendae Sententiae excommunications take place through ecclesiastical council....meaning they are actually called to the carpet by their bishop/cardinal, and they go through a formal hearing process where it is determined whether or not they will be excommunicated.

 

Cuomo is a Roman Catholic member of the government who most definitely fights to keep abortion legal. As such, his excommunication falls under the Latae category, and he thereby IS excommunicated.

 

Are you sure the bold leads to excommunication? You are dead on with the part of those who procure or facilitate abortions but while fighting to legalize or keep abortion legal is sinful, I didn't think the legal/political side led to excommunication. I say that because my state representative (Tom Burch) is probably the strongest proponent in the General Assembly to prevent any legal restrictions on abortion in KY. Unfortunately, Burch attends St. Bernard. The former pastor was Fr. Anthony Chandler. If Burch was Latae excommunicated and still was taking communion, Fr. Chandler would seem like the type of priest who would call him aside and remind him not to take communion and to the best of my knowledge, that never happened.