So how do you all take the article. Seems he is against a lot of people.

Cuomo to Catholics: You?re Not Welcome in NY

So how do you all take the article. Seems he is against a lot of people.

Cuomo to Catholics: You?re Not Welcome in NY

 

Can a mod change the header to Governor instead of Mayor, was up way to late last night to be posting.

Unfortunately, I am not surprised. I have heard the quote in the last paragraph of the article by Chicago’s Cardinal Francis George -"... has predicted that he will die in his bed, his successor will die in prison, and his successor will die a martyr." Scary stuff.

Typical. If anyone is suprised libs are the real bigots I have a bridge to sell you.

Edited January 22, 201412 yr by True blue (and gold)
Rule 2

I believe former NY Cardinal O'Connor once threatened to refuse to comply with a NY law which mandated all hospitals perform abortions, even Catholic hospitals. He was informed that charges would be pressed against him and he could receive a jail sentence. His reply was, "Then I will lead this diocese from my prison cell." NY realized jailing a religious leader would be a PR nightmare so they backed down from religious affiliated hospitals.

I believe former NY Cardinal O'Connor once threatened to refuse to comply with a NY law which mandated all hospitals perform abortions, even Catholic hospitals. He was informed that charges would be pressed against him and he could receive a jail sentence. His reply was, "Then I will lead this diocese from my prison cell." NY realized jailing a religious leader would be a PR nightmare so they backed down from religious affiliated hospitals.

Cuomo is a Roman Catholic. So why hasn't he been excommunicated? Perhaps the church is more inclusive than we thought.

Cuomo is a Roman Catholic. So why hasn't he been excommunicated? Perhaps the church is more inclusive than we thought.

 

Not a cannon lawyer by any stretch of the imagination so I cannot state what causes one to excommunicate themselves or not. I believe it has more to do with heresy than political views, ie if a priest or bishop or I guess a lay person were to start preaching that Jesus was put to death but really never rose again, that would refute an accepted dogma of the church and the person is trying to spread that heresy.

 

Something like this is not direct heresy (he never said abortions are great, all women should have one) but he has certainly distanced himself from the church. In a case like this, I could see some wanting him to be refused communion until he brings himself back into communion with the church. I doubt if will happen. Francis seems to be more along the part that the burden is on the person to understand that they should not accept communion rather than the church refuse communion. Atleast I think that is his MO.

Not a cannon lawyer by any stretch of the imagination so I cannot state what causes one to excommunicate themselves or not. I believe it has more to do with heresy than political views, ie if a priest or bishop or I guess a lay person were to start preaching that Jesus was put to death but really never rose again, that would refute an accepted dogma of the church and the person is trying to spread that heresy.

 

Something like this is not direct heresy (he never said abortions are great, all women should have one) but he has certainly distanced himself from the church. In a case like this, I could see some wanting him to be refused communion until he brings himself back into communion with the church. I doubt if will happen. Francis seems to be more along the part that the burden is on the person to understand that they should not accept communion rather than the church refuse communion. Atleast I think that is his MO.

Our new liberal pope, Francis, just handed Raymond Burke his walking papers. That in itself is highly significant as to where this debate is headed, and it isn't good news for the conservative wing of the church in the United States.

Our new liberal pope, Francis, just handed Raymond Burke his walking papers. That in itself is highly significant as to where this debate is headed, and it isn't good news for the conservative wing of the church in the United States.

 

It cracks me up the number of people who really believe Cardinal Burke was "handed his walking papers". Cardinal Burke was one of five members removed from one congregation, the Congregation for Bishops. He my still sit on another congregation, I do not recall. Pope Francis has made a point to shake up several committees to get a balance between as he calls it, administrators and pastors. Also balance between conservative and moderate view points. And lastly, cardinals who have too much influence by holding too many positions in the Roman Curia. People are making it like Burke has been stripped of all his duties and positions.

 

Burke is still a Cardinal in good standing with the church. Should Pope Francis die today, Burke would be one of the electors in the conclave. Burke is still the Prefect of the Supreme Tribunal of the Apostolic Signatura. The Supreme Tribunal of the Apostolic Signatura is to the Catholic Church what the Supreme Court is to the United States. Some say Burke's role as the Prefect is similar to that of the US Chief Justice which is really not correct. What separates the Chief Justice from the other Justices is mostly administrative duties, not a whole lot of additional judicial power. The Prefect on the other hand DOES have additional judicial power over the others on the Signatura. Burke's position of Prefect of the Signatura is still a VERY high and prestigious position in the church, similar to the Secretariat of State and the Prefect for the Doctrine of the Faith.

Our new liberal pope, Francis, just handed Raymond Burke his walking papers. That in itself is highly significant as to where this debate is headed, and it isn't good news for the conservative wing of the church in the United States.

 

TTP, several things to address here, I'll just touch on a couple.

 

Pope Francis as a liberal pope: I actually think Pope Francis is conservative, but compassionate. He's not espoused any change in Dogma, but preaches the compassionate teachings of Jesus Christ, and his namesake.

 

The apparent equation of the Vatican culture to our form of democracy: The organizational structure of the Vatican is far more complex than that of our government...yet in other ways, far more simple. The simple: The theocracy by which are operating is absolute. Regardless of the position one or another of the Cardinals or even the Pope, the Dogma is clear and absolute.

Edited January 21, 201412 yr by rockmom

TTP, several things to address here, I'll just touch on a couple.

 

Pope Francis as a liberal pope: I actually think Pope Francis is conservative, but compassionate. He's not espoused any change in Dogma, but preaches the compassionate teachings of Jesus Christ, and his namesake.

 

The apparanet equation of the Vatican culture to our form of democracy: The organizational structure of the Vatican is far more complex than that of our government...yet in other ways, far more simple. The simple: The theocracy by which are operating is absolute. Regardless of the position one or another of the Cardinals or even the Pope, the Dogma is clear and absolute.

 

There was a comical article floating around on the internet/Facebook a few months ago. As you read the article, it was blasting liberal Francis and supported its opening by listing a dozen or so quotes attributed to Francis. The quotes were of numerous topics. Warning of the danger of out of control capitalism, promoting sympathy and care towards migrants wanting to leave 3rd world countries for 1st world countries for better opportunities, lamenting the lack of care for the poor, etc.. After the quotes were listed, the author of the article then admits he pulled a fast one on the readers of the article. Everyone of the quotes came from Pope Benedict and then offered citations for where each quote came from. The style of delivering the message and what part of the message to focus on between Popes Benedict and Francis is very different but the message is ultimately the same. The comments of Francis being a liberal while humorous, ultimately are out of ignorance.

TTP, several things to address here, I'll just touch on a couple.

 

Pope Francis as a liberal pope: I actually think Pope Francis is conservative, but compassionate. He's not espoused any change in Dogma, but preaches the compassionate teachings of Jesus Christ, and his namesake.

 

The apparanet equation of the Vatican culture to our form of democracy: The organizational structure of the Vatican is far more complex than that of our government...yet in other ways, far more simple. The simple: The theocracy by which are operating is absolute. Regardless of the position one or another of the Cardinals or even the Pope, the Dogma is clear and absolute.

I think you've confused Pope Francis with George W. Bush. The latter was the "compassionate conservative." Francis, to his credit, has cleaned house at the Vatican Bank, and his statements critical of capitalism even prompted Rush Limbaugh to call him a Marxist.

I think you've confused Pope Francis with George W. Bush. The latter was the "compassionate conservative." Francis, to his credit, has cleaned house at the Vatican Bank, and his statements critical of capitalism even prompted Rush Limbaugh to call him a Marxist.

 

Please....don't ever bring Rush into a conversation with me. His views are so outrageous I can't even begin to consider them legitimate.

Please....don't ever bring Rush into a conversation with me. His views are so outrageous I can't even begin to consider them legitimate.

I'm certainly not a fan of Limbaugh either. My only point in quoting him here is that if you have a defined conservative who says the new pope is a Marxist -- based on his controversial statements regarding capitalism -- then one can hardly call Francis a conservative just because he's made no theological waves (yet).

I'm certainly not a fan of Limbaugh either. My only point in quoting him here is that if you have a defined conservative who says the new pope is a Marxist -- based on his controversial statements regarding capitalism -- then one can hardly call Francis a conservative just because he's made no theological waves (yet).

 

I think we (and apparently I vs. Most People) have different ideas of what conservative means.