Are there some gender prejudices involved in this debate?

[addout]

First of all let me preface my post by saying that if the Boys sweet 16 is ever dominated by private schools the way the girls has been the past several years there would be changes made.---- As for the above --- I feel that the main reason why privates are more dominate in girls basketball are resources and priorities. Many public schools do not place great emphasis on athletics. Others only emphasize certain teams (usually football and boys basketball). This creates more competition in those areas making it more difficult for privates to dominate. I feel that privates stress athletics as a means to increase enrollments. I think that this is a huge misconception of privates. They do not recruit athletes to their schools. They simply create better programs that entice parents to send the kids to those schools. So, because fewer public schools emphasize the "lesser" programs (girls basketball, soccer, golf, CC, etc. etc) privates benefit. If my child was interested in golf, and the public school did not emphasize it, I would definitely enroll them in a private school that did.--- If I lived in Louisville and had a daughter that wanted to play basketball, she would definitely attend one of the top privates (Mercy, Assumption, Sacred Heart, etc), but my son could attend a public (Male, PRP etc.)

Thank you. You said it better than I could! Indeed, it all boils down to priorities. I say this because resources follow priorities! The privates put more emphasis on girls sports than do the publics and because of this emphasis they will continue to be disproportately representated in the polls. In girls sports this will continue because too few people care anything about girls sports!

[ladiesbballcoach]

But the problem is that they are not banned from playing a club sport. They would be banned from playing a club sport AND a KHSAA sport.

 

In other words, volleyball players that play JO volleyball could still play JO volleyball and they would. The Junior Olympic/AAU volleyball would be the only place to be seen and get a college offer. If a high school were able to field a volleyball team it could be girls that are 20th to 30th best players in their own school. The top 20 would be playing Club. Of course in some schools it might be the Top 5 in Club but in others it might be the Top 50.

Top coaches would all go to Club and no college coach is going to bother to look at any high school players because the competition is so weak.

Again, we have two views. Louisville view and the way it works in other parts of the state. The rural counties do not have access to a strong club program.

 

So while Louisville schools may see a decrease, I believe other schools outside of the city limits would see an increase.

[ladiesbballcoach]

I get the impression that some people out there feel that the answer to the problem of private school domination of some girls' sports is to set rules in place which would reduce the quality of the programs and the abillity of the athletes at those schools. Is that the idea?

 

So the idea is that if we don't strive for excellence, but strive for mediocrity instead, then everything will be "fair".

Not at all. Just "excellence" occurs at different levels. Presently, all have to compete. But there are circumstances out of the schools control that prevents the development at all level.

 

For my school to compete in a club volleyball setting, it would be a one-hour drive in one direction. The economic level of our community would limit the parents who could afford club volleyball. Plus, KHSAA rules prevent the school from providing funding and/or transportation to be in club vollebyall during the school year.

 

Yet, you have other schools that have those accesses and are very strong programs. And we have individuals like yourself, who tell us we need to work harder and quit whining.

 

What I see everyone saying is that, the levels that we have said are equal are not. We do not expect different levels of the NCAA to compete against each other. You do not expect Centre to compete against UK. So is the NCAA mediocre because of that?????

[rock86]

What I see everyone saying is that, the levels that we have said are equal are not. We do not expect different levels of the NCAA to compete against each other. You do not expect Centre to compete against UK. So is the NCAA mediocre because of that?????

 

That makes my point as far as needing more classes in all sports, including basketball if you want to take it that far and bust up the Sweet Sixteen. As far as I am concerned, Louisville gets under represented based on population in the Sweet Sixteen. Jefferson County should get at least 4 teams of the 16. Another option is to choose to leave basketball alone. As far as the other sports including swimming, volleyball, baseball, softball, wrestling, golf...demand more classes from the KHSAA. I don't hear complaints about cross country or track.

The answer is not expulsion of privates and the politics involved will keep that from happening at the higher levels in government. Have class A, AA, AAA, AAAA in all sports. Add a AAAAA in some sports. Agree to allow the KHSAA to up the ticket prices or increase their cut of the first round games on up to cover their increased expenses. Rotate sites except for basketball, cross country and football.

[ladiesbballcoach]

That makes my point as far as needing more classes in all sports, including basketball if you want to take it that far and bust up the Sweet Sixteen. As far as I am concerned, Louisville gets under represented based on population in the Sweet Sixteen. Jefferson County should get at least 4 teams of the 16. Another option is to choose to leave basketball alone. As far as the other sports including swimming, volleyball, baseball, softball, wrestling, golf...demand more classes from the KHSAA. I don't hear complaints about cross country or track.

The answer is not expulsion of privates and the politics involved will keep that from happening at the higher levels in government. Have class A, AA, AAA, AAAA in all sports. Add a AAAAA in some sports. Agree to allow the KHSAA to up the ticket prices or increase their cut of the first round games on up to cover their increased expenses. Rotate sites except for basketball, cross country and football.

I would agree that it is more than just private and public issues. The kick the privates out of the KHSAA is just a emotionally charged statement that is 100% UNTRUE. Prop 20 does NOT do that.

 

It creates exactly what you said, another class. This class is determined by public/private and not size.

 

Is it right or wrong is the debate. I personally don't think class by size is the correct solution to the problem.

[leatherneck]

Not at all. Just "excellence" occurs at different levels. Presently, all have to compete. But there are circumstances out of the schools control that prevents the development at all level.

 

For my school to compete in a club volleyball setting, it would be a one-hour drive in one direction. The economic level of our community would limit the parents who could afford club volleyball. Plus, KHSAA rules prevent the school from providing funding and/or transportation to be in club vollebyall during the school year.

 

Yet, you have other schools that have those accesses and are very strong programs. And we have individuals like yourself, who tell us we need to work harder and quit whining.

 

What I see everyone saying is that, the levels that we have said are equal are not. We do not expect different levels of the NCAA to compete against each other. You do not expect Centre to compete against UK. So is the NCAA mediocre because of that?????

 

Well the NCAA doesn't say that USC, with its great weather (normally),beautiful environment, great transportation system in the area has unfair advantages over say I don't know, the University of W. Virginia with its cruddy weather, not real pretty environment (easy mountain lovers, I'm just trying to make a point) and lack of big airports nearby does it? And they don't say that UK with all its money pouring into its basketball program has an unfair advantage over say Iona which does not have near the financial resources to put in the basketball program does it? The NCAA doesn't say that University of Florida with its ability to attract and pay great football coaches has an unfair advantage over the likes of University of Cincinnati does it? Nope. If a university wants to play D1 sports and can make the minimum committments required, it can play. Those schools with huge advantages of locale, money, tradition etc are not penalized. About the only leveling criteria imposed on the schools are number of scholarships available. And yes that was done to impose some level of parity amongst the schools, but before you say we should do the same with high school sports (ie,limit the number of players per team), I think you'd have to admit that high school sports plays a dramatically different role in the lives of kids than D1 college sports does. We generally believe high school sports is a very important part of the high school educational process; never heard that claim about college sports. But to respond to your point, if Centre wanted to compete against UK and could meet the minimum requirements, the NCAA would not say that UK had to dumb itself down to get to Centre's level. Nor would it kick UK out of the NCAA or force it to compete only with a few other universities that put the same amount of money into the basketball program and had similar size arenas and paid similar amount of money to the head coach and had a similar number of assistant coaches and had a similar recruiting budget, etc. I don't think your Centre/UK/NCAA analogy is a valid one in my opinion.

[BigStud]

Well the NCAA doesn't say that USC, with its great weather (normally),beautiful environment, great transportation system in the area has unfair advantages over say I don't know, the University of W. Virginia with its cruddy weather, not real pretty environment (easy mountain lovers, I'm just trying to make a point) and lack of big airports nearby does it? And they don't say that UK with all its money pouring into its basketball program has an unfair advantage over say Iona which does not have near the financial resources to put in the basketball program does it? The NCAA doesn't say that University of Florida with its ability to attract and pay great football coaches has an unfair advantage over the likes of University of Cincinnati does it? Nope. If a university wants to play D1 sports and can make the minimum committments required, it can play. Those schools with huge advantages of locale, money, tradition etc are not penalized. About the only leveling criteria imposed on the schools are number of scholarships available. And yes that was done to impose some level of parity amongst the schools, but before you say we should do the same with high school sports (ie,limit the number of players per team), I think you'd have to admit that high school sports plays a dramatically different role in the lives of kids than D1 college sports does. We generally believe high school sports is a very important part of the high school educational process; never heard that claim about college sports. But to respond to your point, if Centre wanted to compete against UK and could meet the minimum requirements, the NCAA would not say that UK had to dumb itself down to get to Centre's level. Nor would it kick UK out of the NCAA or force it to compete only with a few other universities that put the same amount of money into the basketball program and had similar size arenas and paid similar amount of money to the head coach and had a similar number of assistant coaches and had a similar recruiting budget, etc. I don't think your Centre/UK/NCAA analogy is a valid one in my opinion.

 

 

Wow bypass all Hall of Fame limits, send this post directly to the BGP Hall of Fame.

[EQUUS GREVYI]

I would agree that it is more than just private and public issues. The kick the privates out of the KHSAA is just a emotionally charged statement that is 100% UNTRUE. Prop 20 does NOT do that.

 

It creates exactly what you said, another class. This class is determined by public/private and not size.

 

Is it right or wrong is the debate. I personally don't think class by size is the correct solution to the problem.

 

But then you have Trinity and X in the same class as Lexington Sayre and Covington Latin.

 

Size seems to be more of an advantage than private / public. How many 1A schools have ever won the sweet 16 boys or girls?

[All Play No Work]

But then you have Trinity and X in the same class as Lexington Sayre and Covington Latin.

 

Size seems to be more of an advantage than private / public. How many 1A schools have ever won the sweet 16 boys or girls?

 

How is that different from every sport now other than football, track, and CC?

 

 

And who says football won't still have classes if a public/private split comes about?

[EQUUS GREVYI]

My daughter played JO volleyball and now coaches an U-15 team ,and she played 4 years at NCC .The main reason she played JO was to improve her play and it was a great help. There was no conflict between the two whatsoever . It can be done .

 

Many high schools do not allow their athletes to participate in any outside teams (AAU/Club vball) whatsoever while playing another school sport. This makes an athlete choose between club sports to improve their skill level and the possibility of playing a 2nd school sport. HS basketball conflicts with club volleyball etc.

[EQUUS GREVYI]

Aren't there only 16 privates with football? Not much there to divide into classes.

[All Play No Work]

Aren't there only 16 privates with football? Not much there to divide into classes.

 

Doesn't mean you can't. If the split is suppossed to set up equal playoffs for private schools and public schools how could schools not be divided by size?

 

If public schhols are, then private schools should be.

 

If the public school championships are at PJS, then the private school championships should be.

[Trinity alum]

Doesn't mean you can't. If the split is suppossed to set up equal playoffs for private schools and public schools how could schools not be divided by size?

 

If public schhols are, then private schools should be.

 

If the public school championships are at PJS, then the private school championships should be.

There is still aproblem. The playoffs can be an important source of revenue. Four rounds of the playoffs are worth $80,000 to $100,000 to Trinity. (Just a guess.) How do you propose to replace the chance at that type of revenue for the private schools? Separate is UNEQUAL.

[ladiesbballcoach]

Well the NCAA doesn't say that USC, with its great weather (normally),beautiful environment, great transportation system in the area has unfair advantages over say I don't know, the University of W. Virginia with its cruddy weather, not real pretty environment (easy mountain lovers, I'm just trying to make a point) and lack of big airports nearby does it? And they don't say that UK with all its money pouring into its basketball program has an unfair advantage over say Iona which does not have near the financial resources to put in the basketball program does it? The NCAA doesn't say that University of Florida with its ability to attract and pay great football coaches has an unfair advantage over the likes of University of Cincinnati does it? Nope. If a university wants to play D1 sports and can make the minimum committments required, it can play. Those schools with huge advantages of locale, money, tradition etc are not penalized. About the only leveling criteria imposed on the schools are number of scholarships available. And yes that was done to impose some level of parity amongst the schools, but before you say we should do the same with high school sports (ie,limit the number of players per team), I think you'd have to admit that high school sports plays a dramatically different role in the lives of kids than D1 college sports does. We generally believe high school sports is a very important part of the high school educational process; never heard that claim about college sports. But to respond to your point, if Centre wanted to compete against UK and could meet the minimum requirements, the NCAA would not say that UK had to dumb itself down to get to Centre's level. Nor would it kick UK out of the NCAA or force it to compete only with a few other universities that put the same amount of money into the basketball program and had similar size arenas and paid similar amount of money to the head coach and had a similar number of assistant coaches and had a similar recruiting budget, etc. I don't think your Centre/UK/NCAA analogy is a valid one in my opinion.

But the option is there for the school to choose where they feel they want to compete. Should a similar option be given to KY HS? Set a criteria for the different classes and they can meet those criteria for participating in that level.

[THEGREENDANDY]

I am not trying to be flippant or trying to start a fight but truly wonder, why the difference in girls and boys sports. Why are private schools so much more powerful in girls sports? Why does their success so much higher than the boys private schools?

 

For example, in the AP poll on BGP....

1. Lexington Catholic

2. Scott Co.

3. Assumption

4. Mercy

5. Iroquois

6. Sacred Heart

6. Christian Co.

8. Franklin-Simpson

9. Louisville Christian

9. Central Hardin

 

1/2 of the top 10 schools are private. I don't think you would see a situation in the boys side where this might occur. I very well may be wrong.

 

Why are private school girls so much more dominate than boys private schools?

 

Sacred Heart, Assumption and Mercy all have open houses just like your Public schools. Go to one and all your questions will be answered. :thumb: