Basketball advantage??

[TonyDanza]

On this date Football powers X and T have less than stellar basketball records. X is 2-2 and Trinity is 1-4. All of both schools' losses have come at the hands of public schools. This shouldn't be happening. Afterall, X and T have all those kids to pick from. They should have a much better chance to find talent...and they can also find that talent in Indiana...across county lines ETC.....

 

And please do not try to feed me all the baloney about not needing but one or two players to be effective in basketball. It still doesn't quell the whole ..."you have more boys" ..and ..." you can get talent from anywhere" rants. If this is true then those schools would have way more than 2 or 3 talented players.

 

 

I have been saying this ALL ALONG :irked: .....and nobody comes up with a good response. This says to me it's ok for the catholics to get kicked around in a sport but how dare the publics get kicked around in a sport!!!!

[TonyDanza]

Some of the arguments used on here about publics, I guess are relevant to your question. While this would not be my opinion but those arguments thrown at publics would be T and X need to 1)find better coaches; 2)work harder; 3)have better parental and community support; 4)have a better feeder system.

 

At least those are the arguments I hear on here for the reasons publics are failing, so I guess they are the same for T and X in basketball.

 

 

We have good coaches, cloning, recruiting and ever other resource available to us....so why aren't we winning more in b-ball??????

[50inarow]

I say kick the publics out of basketball. We need a level court.

[rockmom]

Maybe football is a Catholic sport! :lol:

[EQUUS GREVYI]

I think it's because the private schools are cheating in football. That causes the football season to go much longer and the athletes are not ready for the start of basketball. Even the bball players that don't play football have no time for conditioning and open gyms because they are too busy at pep rallies and playoff games.

[Hasbeen]

Maybe football is a Catholic sport! :lol:

 

They don't call the desperate long pass play a "Hail Mary" for nothing.

[ladiesbballcoach]

I say kick the publics out of basketball. We need a level court.

That is what Prop 20 will give you.

[TonyDanza]

I say kick the publics out of basketball. We need a level court.

 

 

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[rockmom]

They don't call the desperate long pass play a "Hail Mary" for nothing.

 

 

Maybe kicking the private schools then will do nothing for parity! :lol: The Catholics pray before and after games, have the Hail Mary pass, and coaches are know to have "Come to Jesus" talks with their players!

[H]

Stick but the ability to find 5 higher quality players when you are looking at 1300 vs 200 boys simply cannot be debated logically. If you are trying to find the 5 oldest coins you can, logic tells you that if you are looking in a pile of 1300 coins the odds are you'll be able to find 5 coins that are older than if you looked in a pile of 200 coins. You may be able to find 5 old coins in the pile of 200, but odds are if you make the same effort to look, you'll find 5 even older coins in the pile of 1300.

 

 

I agree with your point that Highlands, Beechwood, X, T have tended to place more emphasis on football, which explains at least part of their success on the gridiron. However, a look back at recent Sweet 16 champs supports the argument that basketball is not the numbers sport that football is.

 

Using the KHSAA's football enrollment data and the boys basketball state champions history, I compiled the following which includes the boys basketball state champion in each of the past 12 years, their total enrollment (boys and girls) according to the most recent KHSAA data, and the school's approximate enrollment rank (a rough rule of thumb for relative school size).

 

2005 South Laurel, 1172 students, Size Rank 40th

2004 Warren Central, 1086 students, Size Rank 48th

2003 Mason County, 746 students, Size Rank 98th

2002 Lexington Catholic, 862 students, Size Rank 88th

2001 Lafayette, 1840 students, Size Rank 4th

2000 Elizabethtown, 723 students, Size Rank 112th

1999 Ballard, 1684 students, Size Rank 9th

1998 Scott County, 1580 students, Size Rank 13th

1997 Eastern, 1644 students, Size Rank 11th

1996 Paintsville, 230 students, Size Rank 208th

1995 Breckenridge County, 879 students, Size Rank 83rd

1994 Fairdale, 839 students, Size Rank 102nd

 

Now, if male enrollment was as important in basketball as many believe it is in football, I would expect to see this list dominated by the largest schools. That clearly is not the case. There are many more wins by schools below an enrollment rank of 40th than there are by schools in the top 40 in enrollment. Could anyone credibly claim that if football were not classified by enrollment, we would see a similarly-even distribution of championships across the enrollment spectrum?

 

I believe the explanation for this lies in the fact that with 22 positions plus special teams, there is much more specialization in football.

[Xman85]

Well after 163 views on this thread...there is not one viable answer to my question....There is no advantage.....X and T are dominated in basketball by the publics for the very same reasons X and T dominate them in football.....Coaching, Work ethic, Community support, and getting student players to come out for the team!

Let's stop all the crying and whining and drop Prop 20 in the tiolet where it belongs!

[leatherneck]

I agree with your point that Highlands, Beechwood, X, T have tended to place more emphasis on football, which explains at least part of their success on the gridiron. However, a look back at recent Sweet 16 champs supports the argument that basketball is not the numbers sport that football is.

 

Using the KHSAA's football enrollment data and the boys basketball state champions history, I compiled the following which includes the boys basketball state champion in each of the past 12 years, their total enrollment (boys and girls) according to the most recent KHSAA data, and the school's approximate enrollment rank (a rough rule of thumb for relative school size).

 

2005 South Laurel, 1172 students, Size Rank 40th

2004 Warren Central, 1086 students, Size Rank 48th

2003 Mason County, 746 students, Size Rank 98th

2002 Lexington Catholic, 862 students, Size Rank 88th

2001 Lafayette, 1840 students, Size Rank 4th

2000 Elizabethtown, 723 students, Size Rank 112th

1999 Ballard, 1684 students, Size Rank 9th

1998 Scott County, 1580 students, Size Rank 13th

1997 Eastern, 1644 students, Size Rank 11th

1996 Paintsville, 230 students, Size Rank 208th

1995 Breckenridge County, 879 students, Size Rank 83rd

1994 Fairdale, 839 students, Size Rank 102nd

 

Now, if male enrollment was as important in basketball as many believe it is in football, I would expect to see this list dominated by the largest schools. That clearly is not the case. There are many more wins by schools below an enrollment rank of 40th than there are by schools in the top 40 in enrollment. Could anyone credibly claim that if football were not classified by enrollment, we would see a similarly-even distribution of championships across the enrollment spectrum?

 

I believe the explanation for this lies in the fact that with 22 positions plus special teams, there is much more specialization in football.

 

H, I understand your point. But I think there are some additional observations to be made. I think the larger schools are doing pretty well in bball. 50% of the championships of the 12 yrs you listed were won by "4A teams" and its 60% of the last 10 years. Mason and Lex Cath surely aren't small schools, in fact they are pretty large schools that have placed a huge emphasis on basketball. If they are consider a large school, which I think they are, then large schools have won 80% of the championships the last 10 years. The last truly small school to win was Paintsville. Does some one care to refresh my recollection in re the composition of that team?

 

And even the small schools that play basketball have admitted by their actions (and by the words of some) that they know they cannot really compete for the bball championship (except in extremely very rare circumstances). The All A Tournament is an outright acknowledgment that size does matter, as they say.

 

We can debate this forever and ever without being able to prove anything. Does size of school matter more in football than in bball? yeah, I'll admit it probably does some. But size of school does matter, more than some people are willing to admit, in bball. And again, if two schools are equally well coached, have players equally committed to winning and one school can take the best 5 of 1300 basketball players and the other takes the best 5 of 200, its hard to argue that a large majority of the times the team from the smaller school will win over the larger school.

 

At the end of the day, I believe that if you look at the recent basketball champions' programs, you are going to find a tradition of success and committment to basketball that is directly responsible for their success (and if you privately asked supporters of those programs, you just might get them to tell you that that their school either does not place the same priority on winning in football, or if they do, its a priority that's only been in place for the last several years. In fact as I review that your list, are there any football powerhouses there?)

[PepRock01]

While you were attempting to be funny...I would have to say that you actually hit the nail on the head. At least on the first 3. Trinity did hire a good coach and even had players attending speed schools last year and showed improvement. X did not. They could work harder as the drive is not near as strong as football. As far as parental and community support...go look at the basketball forum and count how many X or T threads you find and then compare that to football forum. One point that you missed was getting players to come out for basketball. While football enjoys great numbers, basketball does not. At X, when I was there, the intramural teams had more talent than the school team.

 

 

That is a similar picture to what our basketball program looked like when I was at Trinity.

[TonyDanza]

You know I noticed the KOTBG Tournament has no Privates in the Semis or Finals... :irked: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[LSURock]

You know I noticed the KOTBG Tournament has no Privates in the Semis or Finals... :irked: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I saw the same thing. When was the last time a public school didn't win KOTBG? Also, whats the deal with John Hardin? This school didn't exist five years ago and now they have a powerhouse football program and seem to be pretty good in basketball as well. Maybe some of the folks that say it can't be done should look to JH to see how it is being done.