Rank the NFL Quarterbacks

[Pancake]

1) Peyton Manning

2) Drew Brees

3) Tom Brady

4) Aaron Rodgers

5) Ben Rothlisberger

6) Phillip Rivers

7) Brett Favre

8) Donovan McNabb

9) Matt Schaub

10) Tony Romo

11) Eli Manning

12) Matt Ryan

13) Joe Flacco

14) Carson Palmer

15) Jay Cutler

16) Kevin Kolb

17) Chad Henne

18) Vince Young

19) Mark Sanchez

20) David Garrard

21) Kyle Orton

22) Matt Cassell

23) Matt Hasselbeck

24) Jason Campbell

25) Jake Delhomme

26) Matthew Stafford

27) Josh Freeman

28) Trent Edwards

29) Alex Smith

30) Matt Moore

31) Matt Leinhart

32) Sam Bradford

[CatsCatsCats]

I guess what I'm having a hard time figuring out is what Brees has every won without a bunch of talent?

 

His first playoff run with the Saints? When Reggie Bush is your second best option offensively you don't have a great offensive football team. That run was all Sean Payton and Drew Brees.

[HammerTime]

1. Palmer

 

2-32. Everyone else.

[CatsCatsCats]

We'll see, he still has at least 4-5 seasons to be able to prove something. Vick always had a good arm, even though people never considered him a good passer. Peerless Price and a young drop prone Roddy White were also the best receivers he ever had. His number one target was Algae Crumpler, a guy who did not even hardly see the field once he went to Tennessee. I think it is very short and narrow minded to say just because he didn't show anything last year that he has lost everything. You sit out of doing something two years, then have a month or two to get ready and see how you perform. You get about a year and a half though of related activities and I bet you look a lot better. Again, if Vinny Testeverde can come back and start in this league at 40, Mike Vick can if given the opportunity.

 

Vick had/has a great arm, but he was never even a good passer. Talk about his WRs but that doesn't change the fact that he wasn't always on target.

 

Think about what you're wanting. You want a guy who was an average at best passer by NFL standards to come back and play QB in the NFL after sitting out 2 years in prison. Say Testerverde or Flutie or whoever but those guys are proven passers. Vick would have to learn how to pass and pass well. And to think that he hasn't lost a step or two is ridiculous. The man is 30 years old if nothing else. Say what you want about Ricky Williams but he is the exception to the rule. I also think all of his yoga and other activities has really slowed down the wear and tear on his body along with his years when he didn't play alot of games.

 

I just don't know of anyone who has ever lost sprinter speed and regained it. It's possible you're right, but it is more than likely that you are very wrong. I don't see how you can't admit that Vick losing alot of his game is not the most likely scenario. I take it you're a Vick fan? I'm about as big of a fan of his as you can get, he's one of my favorite handful of players all-time and I thought exactly like you did before last season. But, the truth is the truth.

[CatsCatsCats]

1. Palmer

 

2-32. Everyone else.

 

After hearing FC and UKMF for 3 days I agree. That's how I would also rank him all-time .

[dolamite]

Vick had/has a great arm, but he was never even a good passer. Talk about his WRs but that doesn't change the fact that he wasn't always on target.

 

Think about what you're wanting. You want a guy who was an average at best passer by NFL standards to come back and play QB in the NFL after sitting out 2 years in prison. Say Testerverde or Flutie or whoever but those guys are proven passers. Vick would have to learn how to pass and pass well. And to think that he hasn't lost a step or two is ridiculous. The man is 30 years old if nothing else. Say what you want about Ricky Williams but he is the exception to the rule. I also think all of his yoga and other activities has really slowed down the wear and tear on his body along with his years when he didn't play alot of games.

 

I just don't know of anyone who has ever lost sprinter speed and regained it. It's possible you're right, but it is more than likely that you are very wrong. I don't see how you can't admit that Vick losing alot of his game is not the most likely scenario. I take it you're a Vick fan? I'm about as big of a fan of his as you can get, he's one of my favorite handful of players all-time and I thought exactly like you did before last season. But, the truth is the truth.

 

Not saying he will be back to 100% Mike Vick status, because obviously he will be a step behind, and never regain fully what he once had. But you are kidding yourself if you think Testeverde or Flutie were ever anything more than just your average qb as well. I will also put a lot of Vicks poor passing numbers on his receiving core because for two or three years straight Roddy White was near the top of the league in dropped passes. There were times Vick had him right in the hands and White would miss it. Price was about the best receiver he ever had the chance to throw to, and in actuality was never anything more than a third/fourth receiver. Again, when Algae Crumpler is your best/most reliable receiving target, how much of your passing ability will you honestly be able to showcase? Again, not saying Vicks going to come back and dominate, and rush for close to 1,000 yards from the qb position, my stance is just that he is a better qb than a lot of guys toward the end of the list. Right now as is, I would take him over 5-10 guys who will start in the league next year any day of the week. You act like its impossible for Vick to be a starter again, but somebody with that much talent and athleticism just doesn't lose every single bit of it. A Mike Vick with half the talent he once had is still better than the guys toward the end of that list, thus the reason I put him there. I just hope he can get the opportunity to prove me right. Him even making it onto the field last year shows his abilities being he had a two year lay off, no real time to prepare and get back into football shape, and still had packages designed for him that took Donovan McNabb off the field and all the while doing this on a playoff team. Not a team like the Rams, but getting 5-10 snaps a game on a playoff team coming off a two year lay off with virtually minimum time to prepare.

[CatsCatsCats]

Not saying he will be back to 100% Mike Vick status, because obviously he will be a step behind, and never regain fully what he once had. But you are kidding yourself if you think Testeverde or Flutie were ever anything more than just your average qb as well. I will also put a lot of Vicks poor passing numbers on his receiving core because for two or three years straight Roddy White was near the top of the league in dropped passes. There were times Vick had him right in the hands and White would miss it. Price was about the best receiver he ever had the chance to throw to, and in actuality was never anything more than a third/fourth receiver. Again, when Algae Crumpler is your best/most reliable receiving target, how much of your passing ability will you honestly be able to showcase? Again, not saying Vicks going to come back and dominate, and rush for close to 1,000 yards from the qb position, my stance is just that he is a better qb than a lot of guys toward the end of the list. Right now as is, I would take him over 5-10 guys who will start in the league next year any day of the week. You act like its impossible for Vick to be a starter again, but somebody with that much talent and athleticism just doesn't lose every single bit of it. A Mike Vick with half the talent he once had is still better than the guys toward the end of that list, thus the reason I put him there. I just hope he can get the opportunity to prove me right. Him even making it onto the field last year shows his abilities being he had a two year lay off, no real time to prepare and get back into football shape, and still had packages designed for him that took Donovan McNabb off the field and all the while doing this on a playoff team. Not a team like the Rams, but getting 5-10 snaps a game on a playoff team coming off a two year lay off with virtually minimum time to prepare.

 

A Mike Vick that is down to a mid- 4.5 40-yard dash time isn't going to be that effective. You act like Crumpler was garbage and he wasn't. White has turned into a pretty good WR, but I guess he just learned to play after Vick left.

 

You also make the point that Vick had 5-10 plays a game on a playoff team....uh, only a really good team could do that. The Eagles were fine putting Vick in there for a few plays. If it worked out it was fine, if not it was no big deal.

 

You're giving his passing abilities way too much credit as well. He's not even an average passer in NFL terms. To be honest with you if you took away his athleticism (which completely changes the types of coverage he faced) he probably isn't much better of a passer than JaMarcus Russell. The dude is a career 53% passer and that is having spent most of his career in an extremely run heavy offense. Compare that to Jake Delhomme who is a career 60% passer.....JAKE DELHOMME!!! Freeman and Sanchez posted better completion percentages as rookies.

 

Vick's speed got him to the NFL, he never would have probably ever started on a major college team if he were just a pocket passer, let alone make it to the NFL. If he's at an even 4.5 now (which I doubt) his value has severely decreased. Until Vick proves he can actually run an NFL offense, you can't say that he would start on 10 NFL teams IMO. If he was a legit starter he'd be starting somewhere.

[dolamite]

A Mike Vick that is down to a mid- 4.5 40-yard dash time isn't going to be that effective. You act like Crumpler was garbage and he wasn't. White has turned into a pretty good WR, but I guess he just learned to play after Vick left.

 

You also make the point that Vick had 5-10 plays a game on a playoff team....uh, only a really good team could do that. The Eagles were fine putting Vick in there for a few plays. If it worked out it was fine, if not it was no big deal.

 

You're giving his passing abilities way too much credit as well. He's not even an average passer in NFL terms. To be honest with you if you took away his athleticism (which completely changes the types of coverage he faced) he probably isn't much better of a passer than JaMarcus Russell. The dude is a career 53% passer and that is having spent most of his career in an extremely run heavy offense. Compare that to Jake Delhomme who is a career 60% passer.....JAKE DELHOMME!!! Freeman and Sanchez posted better completion percentages as rookies.

 

Vick's speed got him to the NFL, he never would have probably ever started on a major college team if he were just a pocket passer, let alone make it to the NFL. If he's at an even 4.5 now (which I doubt) his value has severely decreased. Until Vick proves he can actually run an NFL offense, you can't say that he would start on 10 NFL teams IMO. If he was a legit starter he'd be starting somewhere.

 

On a playoff team you have a lot more talent than on your losing team. Meaning you have to be a pretty good player to get some snaps. To act like he only got in because they were good and they could afford to is a horrible argument. Yeah this guy sucks, but were so good of a team we can afford to let him play. I'm sure every coach around the league who coaches a good team looks at things that way, yeah right, they only play guys who are capable of playing. Reid played Vick because there was a chance he could make a big play, and IMO that is a major compliment to a guy who had been out two years and had limited time to get ready.

 

If Crumpler was so great, then why did he not do anything after Vick? Why did he not do anything in Tennessee? Is it just totally out of the question that with the help of Vick he had good numbers being they were in a west coast system, and with so much emphasis on the run it let safetys and outside backers focus more attention on containing Vick allowing Crumpler to get open?

 

Jake Delhomme? The same Jake Delhomme that led his team to a Super Bowl and who up until the past couple of years was a pretty good quarterback in this league?

 

 

 

If you've lost all hope in Vick thats fine with me, but to act like he has no chance of being a decent starter in this league again is ridiculous to me, especially considering some of the guys in this league who are starting these days.

[CatsCatsCats]

On a playoff team you have a lot more talent than on your losing team. Meaning you have to be a pretty good player to get some snaps. To act like he only got in because they were good and they could afford to is a horrible argument. Yeah this guy sucks, but were so good of a team we can afford to let him play. I'm sure every coach around the league who coaches a good team looks at things that way, yeah right, they only play guys who are capable of playing. Reid played Vick because there was a chance he could make a big play, and IMO that is a major compliment to a guy who had been out two years and had limited time to get ready.

 

If Crumpler was so great, then why did he not do anything after Vick? Why did he not do anything in Tennessee? Is it just totally out of the question that with the help of Vick he had good numbers being they were in a west coast system, and with so much emphasis on the run it let safetys and outside backers focus more attention on containing Vick allowing Crumpler to get open?

 

Jake Delhomme? The same Jake Delhomme that led his team to a Super Bowl and who up until the past couple of years was a pretty good quarterback in this league?

 

 

 

If you've lost all hope in Vick thats fine with me, but to act like he has no chance of being a decent starter in this league again is ridiculous to me, especially considering some of the guys in this league who are starting these days.

 

1. Reid could play Vick in hopes that he would show flashes of his old self. They were good enough to let him have a few plays a game to see what he could do, which was pretty much nothing. Good teams can afford to do that. Not a novel concept, or at least I didn't think it was.

2. Crumpler gained over 30 pounds in one off-season in Tennessee. He got way up over 300 pounds, which made him fatter than he actually was. He was a 4-time Pro Bowler and 2-time all-pro.

3. Jake Delhomme who people had ranked among the worst starters in the league in this thread. Yup, that one. Pretty good is a stretch, he did make one Pro Bowl though. Average to good will work just fine.

4. To act like it's more likely that Vick becomes a quality starter again rather than just a side-show or below average guy, seems kind of out-there, improbable, and actually borderline crazy. You're counting on hiim becoming an adequate passer, something he has really never been. His highest completion % was 55 for crying out loud. I'll take my chances with Josh Freeman or whoever you mentioned and obviously so would every NFL team at the moment.

 

Not saying Vick won't do it, I'm just saying it's not likely. I really don't see what's hard about that. What did he do last year that screamed to you "Man, he looked like the Old Vick!"? I didn't see anything personally. Not saying he had to be the way he was 4 or 5 years ago, but you would think there would have been some flashes of his old self if it was still there. The 60 year old Washington Wizards version of Jordan still looked like the guy who was beating up on the Jazz in the Finals in 98, every now and then.

 

This is a ridiculous argument and I'm done with it. No one has even come close to agreeing with you on this. NFL teams obviously don't agree with you. Heck, Michael Vick probably doesn't even agree with you.

[CatsCatsCats]

And since you brought up the WCO and running the ball every down, don't you think that helped Vick's numbers too?

-Option #1 was a run

-Option #2 was a Vick scramble

-Option #3 some short pass

 

What would Vick's numbers have been like in a different system? Would he have even been a 50% passer in a more traditional offense? Maybe you don't want to pass the ball 50% of the time with Vick at QB but shouldn't that tell you something? He's 30 years old, not getting any younger, and even if he did get nearly everything back that he had how long would he have it for? A season? Maybe two or three? Would someone really take the publicity hit to start MV for one season, not knowing how well he can play the game? Not the garbage wildcat 5 or 6 plays, but an entire game full of checks and audibles and reading coverage.

[dolamite]

 

This is a ridiculous argument and I'm done with it. No one has even come close to agreeing with you on this. NFL teams obviously don't agree with you. Heck, Michael Vick probably doesn't even agree with you.

 

Thats a ridiculous argument for you to use as well as I don't think anyone has supported you either. :lol:

 

As soon as I posted my list though it did trigger someone else to include Vick, so obviously I'm not the only one that thinks it. But in debate, you can never agree with a guy who always thinks he is right no matter what. Personally, I'm not saying I'm right, or not open to what you have said, but how you keep saying he done nothing last year and thats what proves to you he won't do anything else is just crazy. He had very, very little time to work, I mean almost none at all to get into the grove of things. Again it may be a couple of years before he gets another chance, much like Warner in NYC before he got his chance for the Cards. But when he does get that chance, whether it be next year or the year after, he will prove to be a starter in this league. You act like I'm saying he will make five pro bowls before its all over and lead teams to the SB. All I'm saying is I think he can and will start in this league again, and right now, I rank him above the lower tier qb's in this league because at least he has proven he can do something and has done anything while so far most of them have done nothing. You say you used to like Vick, but the way you went from celebrating Lebron one minute to hating him the next leads me no reason to believe that you actually would want Vick to succeed again, but would much rather watch him fail (like a majority of people). On the otherhand I would love to see him triumph and right all of his wrongs from off the field on the field, and at thirty and after getting back into football shape I think he can do it. This is not the NBA where your peak years are your early-mid 20's. The NFL normally see's guys playing their best football mid 20's-30's (outside of Running Backs). He also had two years of no wear and tear at all subtracting two years off his football life. Again, how some guy can go from being one of the best players in the league one year, then two later (no injury) have no shot of ever starting again is beyond me. Especially when your basing your entire argument on what he done last season after not having any time at all to be around football or to get back into football shape. This will be the year I base my judgement on, and if he cannot prove anything this year or next I will concede my argument, until that time though I see no reason to just give up and act like its impossible for him to do.

[CatsCatsCats]

Thats a ridiculous argument for you to use as well as I don't think anyone has supported you either. :lol:

 

As soon as I posted my list though it did trigger someone else to include Vick, so obviously I'm not the only one that thinks it. But in debate, you can never agree with a guy who always thinks he is right no matter what. Personally, I'm not saying I'm right, or not open to what you have said, but how you keep saying he done nothing last year and thats what proves to you he won't do anything else is just crazy. He had very, very little time to work, I mean almost none at all to get into the grove of things. Again it may be a couple of years before he gets another chance, much like Warner in NYC before he got his chance for the Cards. But when he does get that chance, whether it be next year or the year after, he will prove to be a starter in this league. You act like I'm saying he will make five pro bowls before its all over and lead teams to the SB. All I'm saying is I think he can and will start in this league again, and right now, I rank him above the lower tier qb's in this league because at least he has proven he can do something and has done anything while so far most of them have done nothing. You say you used to like Vick, but the way you went from celebrating Lebron one minute to hating him the next leads me no reason to believe that you actually would want Vick to succeed again, but would much rather watch him fail (like a majority of people). On the otherhand I would love to see him triumph and right all of his wrongs from off the field on the field, and at thirty and after getting back into football shape I think he can do it. This is not the NBA where your peak years are your early-mid 20's. The NFL normally see's guys playing their best football mid 20's-30's (outside of Running Backs). He also had two years of no wear and tear at all subtracting two years off his football life. Again, how some guy can go from being one of the best players in the league one year, then two later (no injury) have no shot of ever starting again is beyond me. Especially when your basing your entire argument on what he done last season after not having any time at all to be around football or to get back into football shape. This will be the year I base my judgement on, and if he cannot prove anything this year or next I will concede my argument, until that time though I see no reason to just give up and act like its impossible for him to do.

 

Okay your response turned into a complete personal attack on me. For always thinking I'm right, it's a discussion no one is ever really right or wrong, other than when we make predictions. We give all give our opinions. Keep your judgements about me out of this, because a.) you don't know me and b.) I'm totally different away from this site. But if you want to make it personal fine, just let me know. BTW, Bugatti agreed with me earlier and like I said NFL teams obviously do as well, seeing as how Vick isn't starting for anyone. He could have signed with anyone last year and teams obviously decided they weren't hard up enough to sign him to start for them.

 

I wouldn't want Vick to do well? I was the person on here defending him the hardest, feel free to pull the threads back up. I would love for the old Vick to be back, but I PERSONALLY cannot see that happening. I lied to myself last year and said I thought he could go back to the way he was, but then I realized that MOST likely he lost a step or two. I didn't become a Vick fan because of his passing abilities and he didn't get to the league because of them either.

[dolamite]

Okay your response turned into a complete personal attack on me. For always thinking I'm right, it's a discussion no one is ever really right or wrong, other than when we make predictions. We give all give our opinions. Keep your judgements about me out of this, because a.) you don't know me and b.) I'm totally different away from this site. But if you want to make it personal fine, just let me know. BTW, Bugatti agreed with me earlier and like I said NFL teams obviously do as well, seeing as how Vick isn't starting for anyone. He could have signed with anyone last year and teams obviously decided they weren't hard up enough to sign him to start for them.

 

I wouldn't want Vick to do well? I was the person on here defending him the hardest, feel free to pull the threads back up. I would love for the old Vick to be back, but I PERSONALLY cannot see that happening. I lied to myself last year and said I thought he could go back to the way he was, but then I realized that MOST likely he lost a step or two. I didn't become a Vick fan because of his passing abilities and he didn't get to the league because of them either.

 

How was that a personal attack at all? Thats like the second or third time you've accused someone of that on this site? I don't see how anything I said could be classified as a personal attack more than anything you have said to me? To me it just comes off as someone trying to prove they know more than someone else when you constantly insinuate there is little chance Vick can ever do anything again in this league, when he has only had one year so far on the comeback, and a year in which he had minimal time to prepare. You have used ever example possible to try and prove that (as good debate should) and even have insinuated some of my claims and examples are idiotic and absurd for thinking so. Did I pull out the red card and accuse you of a personal attack although I felt you were trying to make me look like an idiot who had no idea what I am talking about, no, because this is what this site is all about. Like I have said numerous times, I have no problems with you on here Cats even though we disagree on numerous issues. Differing opinions is what fuels this site. Accusing me of a personal attack I did not commit nor intend to commit though is completely wrong, I have been on this site for almost seven years, that is not how I operate. As you I am a different person away from the site and anyone who knows me can tell you I am genuinely one of the nicest people you will meet. The fact you think I was making a personal attack really bothers me because that was not my intention.

[AverageJoesGym]

Wow, I just didn't see any personal attacks at all. Just a disagreement on Vick's abilities. We really need the season to get here.

[Lucky Charms]

My top ten

 

1. Brees

2. Brady

3. Peyton Manning

4. Rodgers

5. Favre

6. Big Ben

7. Rivers

8. Eli Manning

9. Romo

10. McNabb

 

I agree with your top 10 to an extent. However, I feel like Rivers should be considered in the top 5. I feel like Rivers should be somewhere in between Manning and Rodgers.