John Calvin

[2 Humped Camel]

I'm by no means well studied on the subject but the question I have is if God already has determined who is going to heaven why would he have sent Jesus to die on the cross? It wouldn't be necessary the way I look at it. Albama Larry I can certainly see an argument for "backsliding" but how does one explain this verse.?

 

Ephesians 1:13-14 (King James Version)

 

13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

 

14Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

[5wide]

History wise, it's pretty easy to look at Jesus' life and what he was all about.

 

Aside from the Bible, what do you base that on? I'm just curious.

[5wide]

I'm by no means well studied on the subject but the question I have is if God already has determined who is going to heaven why would he have sent Jesus to die on the cross? It wouldn't be necessary the way I look at it. Albama Larry I can certainly see an argument for "backsliding" but how does one explain this verse.?

 

Ephesians 1:13-14 (King James Version)

 

13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

 

14Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

 

Both sides of the argument have verses or passages to support their belief. Why all the pleas for perseverance and endurance if it's a sure thing? Why the warnings in the book of Hebrews?

 

To paraphrase, John 6:39 says God's will is that Jesus should lose nothing that He has given Him. John 10:28-29 says that no one can snatch them out of Jesus' hand. Then, in John 16:1, Jesus says I have said these things to keep you from falling away.

[Alabama Larry]

Pig, I agree...Hebrews 5:11/6:1-7/10:26/10:35/Galatians 5:4/ 2nd Peter 2:20 3:17/ Luke 8:13/ James 5:19 all actually mention "falling away" or comes to the same meaning.

 

TULIP, Unconditional Election=God chose who would be saved, then why Jesus coming to Earth? God chose the Plan not the man.

[acemona]

Maybe a better question would be; Why wouldn't God not send us all to hell? It's hard to imagine that any of us are worthy. God created us all didn't he? Are we all going to heaven?

As I've said before, I am by no means a professed Calvinist, although I do believe there is scripture to support it. It's a great subject and it has a few of us digging in and thinking about the word of God, and there's certainly nothing wrong with that. Agree?

 

maybe?

[CatsCatsCats]

Aside from the Bible, what do you base that on? I'm just curious.

 

Other writings from the time. There are about a million (not literally) other text that were left out of the Bible, and I would use that along with the Bible. I think that most of the lessons in there are accurate, I just think that individual verses have a high probability of being altered to fit a certain philosophy of belief from time to time.

[5wide]

Other writings from the time. There are about a million (not literally) other text that were left out of the Bible, and I would use that along with the Bible. I think that most of the lessons in there are accurate, I just think that individual verses have a high probability of being altered to fit a certain philosophy of belief from time to time.

 

It seems a little inconsistent to discount some as being corrupted and accepting others. But, it's certainly your right to do so.

[CatsCatsCats]

It seems a little inconsistent to discount some as being corrupted and accepting others. But, it's certainly your right to do so.

 

I just think that verses could have be interpreted to fit a certain philosophy or belief system. I don't know if the entire thing could have been changed.

[Alabama Larry]

I'm having breakfast and then a study with a Preacher soon, excuse me if I already mentioned this.

[5wide]

I just think that verses could have be interpreted to fit a certain philosophy or belief system. I don't know if the entire thing could have been changed.

 

:thumb:

[Alabama Larry]

OK, the preacher does believe in some form of Calvinism. He says there are hardcore folks on it and others. He believes in OSAS of the "P". I kindly disagreed with him, but maybe if someone can lose their Salavation they truly wasn't Saved in the first place. So on that line of thinking a True Christian cannot lose their Salvation. No man can pluck you from the hand of God, No Satan, No Demon, No relative, but what about YOU?

[CatsCatsCats]

OK, the preacher does believe in some form of Calvinism. He says there are hardcore folks on it and others. He believes in OSAS of the "P". I kindly disagreed with him, but maybe if someone can lose their Salavation they truly wasn't Saved in the first place. So on that line of thinking a True Christian cannot lose their Salvation. No man can pluck you from the hand of God, No Satan, No Demon, No relative, but what about YOU?

 

My belief is that once a person dedicates their life to Christ, they are going to be tempted in every angle from "El Diablo". But, I think it's a choice to leave the side of God. Once salvation is achieved, only the person can choose to flee back to their evil lifestyle and ways, and separation from God, God's not going to cast them out. That's what once saved always saved means to me. But, I'm probably not the best to give Biblical advice. :thumb:

[Alabama Larry]

Actually you have done very well, and I look forward to your comments. I also have enjoyed all the feedback from Posters.

 

I spelled Salvation wrong in post #41

[5wide]

My belief is that once a person dedicates their life to Christ, they are going to be tempted in every angle from "El Diablo". But, I think it's a choice to leave the side of God. Once salvation is achieved, only the person can choose to flee back to their evil lifestyle and ways, and separation from God, God's not going to cast them out. That's what once saved always saved means to me. But, I'm probably not the best to give Biblical advice. :thumb:

 

I'm not sure what I believe on the issue. But, I tend to agree with you. If a person can lose their salvation, I think they'd have to make a willful decision to turn away from Christ. I don't think they could accidentally fall away.

 

Two criticisms...first, on OSAS, if taken to its extreme its a "license to sin." Of course, people who generally hold that view believe that a person who is really saved will bear the fruit of a Christian.

 

Second, on the oppposite view, if you can lose it, where's the limit? Is your salvation gone after your first mistake? After a week? A month?

[Alabama Larry]

If you lose it, with a true repentance heart you can gain salvation again. A true Christian who is a believer who confesses/repents will not lose salvation. They would have to turn away from Jesus with also a true heart to turn. The only unforgivable sin is rejecting the Holy Spirit. So if this person who claims to be a believer then later in life turns away then dies, well thats up to Jesus on judgement day. But if the same person repents before he dies. One of my all time favorite most used verses. 1st Samual 16:7...The LORD looks a the person's heart, man looks at the outward appearance.

 

We cannot fool God.