John Calvin

[CatsCatsCats]

If God chooses who wil go to heaven, I'm gonna be pretty ticked if I'm standing outside the gates. I believe that he knows who will and who won't accept him as their savior, but I cannot agree with the notion that those who go to heaven were selected. I just can't do it.

[SKINPIG]

If God chooses who wil go to heaven, I'm gonna be pretty ticked if I'm standing outside the gates. I believe that he knows who will and who won't accept him as their savior, but I cannot agree with the notion that those who go to heaven were selected. I just can't do it.

 

If you've never given this any thought before, it's very tough to swollow. I've been giving this thought for a year now and still don't know what to think. It's VERY interesting though.

[CatsCatsCats]

If you've never given this any thought before, it's very tough to swollow. I've been giving this thought for a year now and still don't know what to think. It's VERY interesting though.

 

I'm just be honest here but I think it's shallow to think that God has to elect people to want to be saved. Is knowing who will choosed to be saved and choosing who will be saved the same thing? I'm not so sure it is. Also, I find it kind of hypocritical if we are suppose to live our lives in a pleasing way to God, but at the end of the day it could not be enough. I just don't know what the purpose of life would be if there isn't free-will. Why would God waste his/her/it's time?

 

Also, I find that using scripture is sort of a ridiculous argument. It was written by man, translated by man, and possibly corrupted by man. Look at how many books were left out or taken out of the Bible. Also realize that in the translations, Catholic and eventually protestant agendas were going to be pushed.

[SKINPIG]

I'm just be honest here but I think it's shallow to think that God has to elect people to want to be saved. Is knowing who will choosed to be saved and choosing who will be saved the same thing? I'm not so sure it is. Also, I find it kind of hypocritical if we are suppose to live our lives in a pleasing way to God, but at the end of the day it could not be enough. I just don't know what the purpose of life would be if there isn't free-will. Why would God waste his/her/it's time?

 

Also, I find that using scripture is sort of a ridiculous argument. It was written by man, translated by man, and possibly corrupted by man. Look at how many books were left out or taken out of the Bible. Also realize that in the translations, Catholic and eventually protestant agendas were going to be pushed.

 

To each his own my brother. I, for one, believe scripture was written and "translated" exactly how God intended. If we can't use scripture, what can we use?

[CatsCatsCats]

To each his own my brother. I, for one, believe scripture was written and "translated" exactly how God intended. If we can't use scripture, what can we use?

 

I guess it is too each his own. However I think that believing that man could not have corrupted what was written is naive. Look at the corruption in the church, specifically during the time of Calvin. If the Church could corrupt God's word for hundreds of years, doesn't that mean that the Bible could have messed with? I think we should just go by the lesseons we can learn from Jesus' life and do the best we can. To me, looking to scripture for advice on issues such as predestination cannot be done. The Bible has many contradictory messages, isn't that some what of a sign of corruption? To the verses quoted you also have "for God so loved the world that he sent his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life". That doesn't sound like we do not have the individual right to choose whether or not we want to follow Jesus to me. Which part of the Bible are we to believe?

[Alabama Larry]

I agree with almost everyone. God created man and then picks who he wants to be in Heaven/Hell? I believe he knows who will accept the Gospel and whom will reject it. Is man born into sin? The "T" in TULIP? Does a baby sin? Or learns it as he/she grows just like they learn everything else?

[CatsCatsCats]

I agree with almost everyone. God created man and then picks who he wants to be in Heaven/Hell? I believe he knows who will accept the Gospel and whom will reject it. Is man born into sin? The "T" in TULIP? Does a baby sin? Or learns it as he/she grows just like they learn everything else?

 

I heard it said that even babies lie, which would be a sin. They don't know what they're doing (making it a sin), but sometimes they cry for attention. I don't know if I buy all of that, but that's how it was put to me. But, looking at it like that, I guess that sin is something people would be born with knowing how to do.

[acemona]

Thes questions/statements really attacks the God is Love notion. Why in the world would God 'create' anyone that He KNEW was going to spend eternity in eternal Word Filter ViolationWord Filter ViolationWord Filter ViolationWord Filter Violationation. True Love would keep God from creating that person.

[IM4THEHOUNDS]

To each his own my brother. I, for one, believe scripture was written and "translated" exactly how God intended. If we can't use scripture, what can we use?[/QUOTE]

 

Amen!

[5wide]

I guess it is too each his own. However I think that believing that man could not have corrupted what was written is naive. Look at the corruption in the church, specifically during the time of Calvin. If the Church could corrupt God's word for hundreds of years, doesn't that mean that the Bible could have messed with? I think we should just go by the lesseons we can learn from Jesus' life and do the best we can. To me, looking to scripture for advice on issues such as predestination cannot be done. The Bible has many contradictory messages, isn't that some what of a sign of corruption? To the verses quoted you also have "for God so loved the world that he sent his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life". That doesn't sound like we do not have the individual right to choose whether or not we want to follow Jesus to me. Which part of the Bible are we to believe?

 

What lessons can we learn from Jesus' life? We can't trust the Bible because man has written and corrupted it. That's the problem with that line of thought. It's anyone's right to question the Bible's reliability, but when you do, I think it's hard to use it in any way. It doesn't make sense to question one person's beliefs by challenging the reliability of the Bible and then referencing it later...not that you did that. Your post just inspired my thought.

[Alabama Larry]

I've asked several Preachers I know about Calvinisn, and the Baptist ones agree with most of it. I'm gonna meet thursday with a new Baptist preacher I just met and he wants to discuss why he follows Calvin and welcomes my in put. The posts on here have helped me form some questions. I have two days so feel free to help me. I'm thinking about the baptist Church and I might want to research some other Faiths. Once saved always saved is an key issue with me.

 

Why would Jesus warn the entire Church of Sardis about their actions. Here is a whole Church of Christians and he asked them to Repent or else.

[5wide]

I would definitely ask him what his thoughts were on all five TULIP points. It's not the way it turned out, but I don't believe Calvin ever intended anyone to pick certain points to believe. I think he viewed them as an inseperable package.

 

There are some "one point Calvinists" who only believe in the P.

[CatsCatsCats]

What lessons can we learn from Jesus' life? We can't trust the Bible because man has written and corrupted it. That's the problem with that line of thought. It's anyone's right to question the Bible's reliability, but when you do, I think it's hard to use it in any way. It doesn't make sense to question one person's beliefs by challenging the reliability of the Bible and then referencing it later...not that you did that. Your post just inspired my thought.

 

History wise, it's pretty easy to look at Jesus' life and what he was all about.

[SKINPIG]

Thes questions/statements really attacks the God is Love notion. Why in the world would God 'create' anyone that He KNEW was going to spend eternity in eternal Word Filter ViolationWord Filter ViolationWord Filter ViolationWord Filter Violationation. True Love would keep God from creating that person.

 

Maybe a better question would be; Why wouldn't God not send us all to hell? It's hard to imagine that any of us are worthy. God created us all didn't he? Are we all going to heaven?

 

As I've said before, I am by no means a professed Calvinist, although I do believe there is scripture to support it. It's a great subject and it has a few of us digging in and thinking about the word of God, and there's certainly nothing wrong with that. Agree?

[SKINPIG]

History wise, it's pretty easy to look at Jesus' life and what he was all about.

 

What source of history do you put more faith in than the Holy Bible?