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John Calvin was an Christian writer/Preacher. A lot of Churches still follow his teachings. I have been studying his works and have found out I disagree on many of them. I'll see if anyone has any comments on him before I share what I have found out and what I disagree with.

 

A couple of them are Once Saved Always saved/man is chosen by God before he is born on his Salvation/Jesus only died for a certain few.

 

I saw a video where a man turned against his Christian up bringing and denounced God. This is the only unforgivable sin, so if he does this does he lose his salvation? The Bible is very clear about this and he can.

 

How can God let man be borned and God choses him to eternal torment. God knows if he will make this choice, but God making it for him?

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Calvinism is a very complex theological philosophy that encompasses many different issues, and forms the basis of many of the things that you yourself believe, Larry. In fact, without Calvinism, a lot of evangelical churches that we lift up today would not exist. That said, certainly the labeled aspects of Calvinism that include predestination and limited atonement I disagree with scripturally, but there are many other aspects of Calvinism than just these that I whole heartedly agree with. I encourage you to read on.

 

Mark Driscoll has written a lot of really good material about this.

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Just dabbling here.

 

Mathew 11:27

"All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him."

 

Mathew 22:14

"For many are invited, but few are chosen."

 

Mathew 24:31

And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other."

 

 

John 6:65

"This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him."

 

Acts 2:39

"The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off--for all whom the Lord our God will call."

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I just finished a class that dealt alot with the works of Calvin, Zwingli and Luther.

 

To understand Calvin's predestination (the way it originally was, not the current ideals), you have to understand the ideals of most people of the day during the reformation. One of the biggest influences on Calvin was the ideology of stoicism, which to him was the idea that God was in control of everything, and life was based on destiny or God's plan and that we don't make choices (in reality) because things are predetermined. Calvin's predestination stated that God knew all, and knew who would and who would not want to be saved. Not that universal of an idea.

 

With double predestination for Calvin, God chose who would and who would not want to be saved. However, it wasn't a concern because those who had been chosen by God, were obviously the people who were coming to the services and doing Godly works.

 

Obviously, modern ideology is not going to agree with Calvin, but you have to take Calvin as a man of his time. Everyone believed this, though many decided it was not something that should be preached or taught (many reform churches, the Church of England, some later Catholic doctines for example). One thing that you have to keep in mind is that with the reformers, this was the first time scripture was used as the largest part of church doctrine, rather than tradition, so everyone was ironing ideas out.

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The Doctrines of Grace are biblical and scripturally founded teachings. John Calvin did not come up with this doctrine he just developed a systematic approach (TULIP) to teaching it. I do not think it is accurate to call these teachings Calvanism as this makes it appear as a man made it up. It is in the bible and found throughout scripture. It is not simple to explain so I have included a few of websites that bring up objections to the doctrines of grace and address them in a much better way than I ever could. They are as follows:

http://www.biblebb.com/files/mac/gtyw02.htm

http://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/onsite/misunderstandings.html

http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/Sermons/ByDate/2003/152_Pastoral_Thoughts_on_the_Doctrine_of_Election/

http://www.grace.org.uk/faith/calvin.html

http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/0385.htm

As you can see this is not a new teaching but is found in scripture. Calvin did not come up with it but his followers designed a system and thus it was dubbed "Calvinism". I am not a Calvinist but I believe the bible teaches the doctrines of grace.

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The Doctrines of Grace are biblical and scripturally founded teachings. John Calvin did not come up with this doctrine he just developed a systematic approach (TULIP) to teaching it. I do not think it is accurate to call these teachings Calvanism as this makes it appear as a man made it up. It is in the bible and found throughout scripture. It is not simple to explain so I have included a few of websites that bring up objections to the doctrines of grace and address them in a much better way than I ever could. They are as follows:

http://www.biblebb.com/files/mac/gtyw02.htm

http://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/onsite/misunderstandings.html

http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/Sermons/ByDate/2003/152_Pastoral_Thoughts_on_the_Doctrine_of_Election/

http://www.grace.org.uk/faith/calvin.html

http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/0385.htm

As you can see this is not a new teaching but is found in scripture. Calvin did not come up with it but his followers designed a system and thus it was dubbed "Calvinism". I am not a Calvinist but I believe the bible teaches the doctrines of grace.

 

I forgot the grace part of the equation, with T.U.L.I.P. Excellent points.:thumb:

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Let's see if I can remember, off the top of my head...

 

Total Depravity of Man - Man, apart from God's regeneration, is incapable of accepting God's grace.

 

Limited Atonement - Jesus sacrifice is only for the elect, not the entire world.

 

Guess I'll have to look the rest up. It's been a while since I've looked at anything about Calvin and TULIP.

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Hey, great job y'all, very good info which will help me. Give more when you can I'm taking notes. One Church I'm visiting doesn't uphold Calvin's work. The P in TULIP Pressurverance of the Saints...=Once saved Always Saved. Boy, I have debated for this and also debated against it. I'll never figure this one out. I have 30 verses where it mentions "Falling Away". And then Jesus tells us in so many ways that he has prepared a place for us/no man can pluck us out of his hand.

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Hey, great job y'all, very good info which will help me. Give more when you can I'm taking notes. One Church I'm visiting doesn't uphold Calvin's work. The P in TULIP Pressurverance of the Saints...=Once saved Always Saved. Boy, I have debated for this and also debated against it. I'll never figure this one out. I have 30 verses where it mentions "Falling Away". And then Jesus tells us in so many ways that he has prepared a place for us/no man can pluck us out of his hand.

 

It's a tough subject. There are verses to support both views.

 

Total Depravity of Man

Unconditional Election

Limited Atonement

Irresistable Grace

Perseverance of the Saints

 

For anyone who may not know them all and didn't want to look it up.

 

The mistake some make, IMO, is to try to separate the five points and look at them individually. I don't think that works because I don't think they can be viewed alone. Calvin's five points are all connected to form a theology. His view of perseverance is closely related to the other four points.

 

If you believe that man cannot accept God apart from His regeneration, that election is based solely on God's will and has nothing to do with mankind in any way, that the atonement is limited to only those whom God elects, and that those whom He elects cannot possibly resist his call, then the next logical step is that those people will persevere.

 

I read a book not too long ago presenting 4 views on eternal security...Classical Calvinism, Moderate Calvinism, Reformed Arminianism and Wesleyan-Arminianism. In that book, one argument that stood out to me was the Calvinist's view that God's sovereignty is challenged by the view that human beings have to make the decision to accept God.

 

Interesting debate that's been raging for centuries.

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5, I just don't agree with Mr.Calvin and I also believe you have to agree on all 5 points if you agree with one. Then you read John 14: Jesus has prepared a place for the Believer, John 14:6 no one comes to the Father except thru me. Does Jesus suppourt the TULIP? Man, this is gonna take a while.

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Don't know...I certainly don't believe all 5 points, but I don't think you have to believe in all of them if you believe in one. Like I said, this debate has raged for centuries. I doubt we'll conclude here on BGP.

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Romans 8:28-32 God foreknew who would be chosen, did God make this choice and leave others out? I don't think so.

 

Ephesians 2:4-5

 

But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions---it is by grace you have been saved. And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith, and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

 

A friend of mine once said "Not one drop of the blood of Jesus was wasted on the cross. The very instant He died, it was done, not for those that God "hoped" would come to him, but for those he chose.

 

I am still debating predestination and elect. I'm not 100% sure as to how I feel about it. I do know one thing though...There are tons of scripture to support it. I'm not interested in reading theories, TULIP or books by Calvin, scripture will explain it in due time. I sort of see it like this...When it comes to our relationship with God, someone has to make the first move, something inside me says it wasn't us.

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