John Calvin

[CatsCatsCats]

I'm not sure what I believe on the issue. But, I tend to agree with you. If a person can lose their salvation, I think they'd have to make a willful decision to turn away from Christ. I don't think they could accidentally fall away.

 

Two criticisms...first, on OSAS, if taken to its extreme its a "license to sin." Of course, people who generally hold that view believe that a person who is really saved will bear the fruit of a Christian.

 

Second, on the oppposite view, if you can lose it, where's the limit? Is your salvation gone after your first mistake? After a week? A month?

 

I don't believe that any one action can lose your salvation. I think that if you have chosen to follow Christ, you have to make a choice not to follow him as well. Maybe it's not always conscious but just completely falling out of fellowship with the Lord.

[5wide]

If you lose it, with a true repentance heart you can gain salvation again. A true Christian who is a believer who confesses/repents will not lose salvation. They would have to turn away from Jesus with also a true heart to turn. The only unforgivable sin is rejecting the Holy Spirit. So if this person who claims to be a believer then later in life turns away then dies, well thats up to Jesus on judgement day. But if the same person repents before he dies. One of my all time favorite most used verses. 1st Samual 16:7...The LORD looks a the person's heart, man looks at the outward appearance.

 

We cannot fool God.

 

How do you reconcile that view with Hebrews 6:4-6?

[5wide]

I don't believe that any one action can lose your salvation. I think that if you have chosen to follow Christ, you have to make a choice not to follow him as well. Maybe it's not always conscious but just completely falling out of fellowship with the Lord.

 

That's my point. How many acts does it take? If not one, five? Ten? Nobody knows. That's the problem with that view, IMO. Just like no accountability can be a problem with the other.

 

Ultimately, both sides believe true Christians will show it with their living. Although they may view things from a different angle, I don't think they're that far apart in reality.

[Alabama Larry]

The writer of Hebrews who no one knows makes a bold statement in chapter 6. I guess I'd go back to where I said "you cannot fool God, he knows your true heart." Revelation 22:4, Book of Life. If the sinner repents after falling away, and this verse comes into play, they could find a surprised on the Day.

 

So does God supersede Hebrews 6?

[5wide]

The writer of Hebrews who no one knows makes a bold statement in chapter 6. I guess I'd go back to where I said "you cannot fool God, he knows your true heart." Revelation 22:4, Book of Life. If the sinner repents after falling away, and this verse comes into play, they could find a surprised on the Day.

 

So does God supersede Hebrews 6?

 

How can you separate the two if you believe all scripture is God-breathed?

 

 

Hebrews 6:4-6 is a problem for both views. If you believe OSAS, then why is there a warning about falling away if it cannot happen...if you believe you can fall away, it says its impossible to come back. At least, that's how it appears to me. I don't have the answers, just the obvious questions.

[CatsCatsCats]

That's my point. How many acts does it take? If not one, five? Ten? Nobody knows. That's the problem with that view, IMO. Just like no accountability can be a problem with the other.

 

Ultimately, both sides believe true Christians will show it with their living. Although they may view things from a different angle, I don't think they're that far apart in reality.

 

To me it's not the action or actions, it's the heart of the individual. Christians sin all the time, but I believe they must ask for forgiveness and guidance. Reverting back to a life of sin, without a sincere attempt to gain knowledge and guidance from God would be turning your back on him IMO.

[Alabama Larry]

5, it states clearly in the verse there is no coming back, so how can any Baptist or any Preacher believe in OSAS? My thing is...God. The only unforgivable sin is the rejection of the Holy Spirit, so if someone comes back they are not rejecting God, they are asking for forgiveness, and he will forgive them.

[5wide]

5, it states clearly in the verse there is no coming back, so how can any Baptist or any Preacher believe in OSAS? My thing is...God. The only unforgivable sin is the rejection of the Holy Spirit, so if someone comes back they are not rejecting God, they are asking for forgiveness, and he will forgive them.

 

Its a difficult passage. Like I said, it provides trouble for both sides.

[Alabama Larry]

Yes you did^^^, All scripture is from God, but I'd love to know who wrote Hebrews?

[5wide]

Yes you did^^^, All scripture is from God, but I'd love to know who wrote Hebrews?

 

Some say Paul...he certainly would have had the knowledge of Hebrew law and customs to do it. But, somewhere in there the writer suggests a second-hand knowledge of Christ, which would disqualify Paul from the discussion.

[Alabama Larry]

I agree it wasn't Paul, unless someone heard him Preaching and copied the sermon. The 13 books that he wrote are different. And I love Hebrews.