Obama's "press" conference

[Habib]

If he wouldn't have been disorderly, he wouldn't have been. The guy got what he deserved, it was his fault, not the cops.

 

Complaining, even insulting police isn't disorderly conduct.

 

Habib, what does it matter if he were on his porch or not? Disorderly conduct is the same if you are in the street or on your porch. Here is a little advise, just because you are on your property doesn't mean you can do what you want.

 

There is a distinction and the arresting officer went out of his way to argue that the arrest was justified because Gates was "in a public place." And keep your advice.

[Habib]

I really don't have a problem with the President having a beer with a buddy or anything like that, but IMO this is kind of absurd. It was one thing for President Obama to prematurely weigh in on the situation for no apparent or practical reason, but I think this is a microcosm of what a lot of people criticized President Obama for early on- he is just way, way too spread out- he is all over the place. Add in the fact that this is being pumped up big time in the media and I just don't understand why our President feels the need to deal with such minor issues.

 

I'm not going to get too fired up about it but it just seems like such a fringe issue.

 

I agree with this.

[woodsrider]

He ID'd himself through a closed door. You read the report again he ID'd himself through the front door and never again. Are rants a crime?? It is sad that some can't see past their politics because I haven't once defended Obama and his reaction. If this didn't involve Race or a comment by a President unpopular with Conservatives I think most would be in agreement. Just so I understand now Conservatives on this forum have justified and are ok with government sanctioned torture, domestic spying/wiretapping and now unlawful arrests, but health care reform is what we should all be worried about from Big Brother? Give me a break.:ohbrother:

 

He identified himself twice. If Gates would have bothered to listen to the answer instead ranting like an idiot then he wouldn't have to ask 3 times. And since he let Crowley in I would assume he heard the answer the first time through the closed door.

 

Rants are a crime if they in public and disorderly. And just because you think the arrest was unlawfulful doesn't make it so.

[woodsrider]

Complaining, even insulting police isn't disorderly conduct.

 

 

 

There is a distinction and the arresting officer went out of his way to argue that the arrest was justified because Gates was "in a public place." And keep your advice.

 

It's disorderly if in public and loud. Bottom line, he didn't have come outside, he was warned twice, he was disorderly.

[UKMustangFan]

He ID'd himself through a closed door. You read the report again he ID'd himself through the front door and never again. Are rants a crime?? It is sad that some can't see past their politics because I haven't once defended Obama and his reaction. If this didn't involve Race or a comment by a President unpopular with Conservatives I think most would be in agreement. Just so I understand now Conservatives on this forum have justified and are ok with government sanctioned torture, domestic spying/wiretapping and now unlawful arrests, but health care reform is what we should all be worried about from Big Brother? Give me a break.:ohbrother:

 

I do agree that with one thing you said Camel. If Gates were white and the President didn't address it, everyone would be in agreement that the cop acted accordingly.

[UKMustangFan]

It's disorderly if in public and loud. Bottom line, he didn't have come outside, he was warned twice, he was disorderly.

 

:thumb:

 

It amazes me that there are really people who truly believe Gates did nothing wrong.

[Run To State]

Complaining, even insulting police isn't disorderly conduct.

Habib, the guy didn't do as the officer told him to and he was arrested. EOS. When you don't do what the police tell you to, you run the risk of being arrested.

BTW, try your luck at running your jaws to the police the way Gates did and see if you don't end up in the back of a cruiser headed downtown. I'll be glad to document it for you.

[Habib]

There are plenty, especially those without partisan agendas, who would view this case through the lens of civil liberties as I've done. I think liberty should supersede the warm and fuzzy feelings conservatives work up when a person like Gates gets arrested. The inconsistency is that had this involved the Second Amendment or someone being locked up for disorderly amidst a tirade against Obama the exact opposite argument would spill out.

 

Jon Shane, who spent 17 years as a police officer in hardscrabble Newark, N.J., said that had he been the cop called to Gates' house, he would have left Gates and his huffy comments alone once he was sure Gates was the homeowner. He admits he may well have been offended by the professor's alleged bluster, but that's just part of the job, so much so that there's a term in police vernacular devoted to situations like this: contempt of cop.

 

"In contempt of court, you get loud and abusive in a courtroom, and it's against the law," says Shane, now a professor of criminal justice at John Jay who specializes in police policy and practice. "With contempt of cop, you get loud and nasty and show scorn for a law-enforcement officer, but a police officer can't go out and lock you up for disorderly conduct because you were disrespectful toward them." The First Amendment allows you to say pretty much anything to the police. "You could tell them to go [edited] themselves," says Shane, "and that's fine."

 

TIME

 

 

Andrew Napolitano, Fox News Legal Analyst

 

The criminal prohibition against "disorderly conduct" can be found in Chapter 272 of the Massachusetts General Laws, under a category that penalizes "crimes against chastitity, morality, decency and good order." It is penalized under Section 53, which provides fines and possible imprisonment for "Common night walkers, common street walkers, both male and female, common railers and brawlers, persons who with offensive and disorderly acts or language accost or annoy persons of the opposite sex, lewd, wanton and lascivious persons in speech or behavior, idle and disorderly persons, disturbers of the peace, keepers of noisy and disorderly houses, and persons guilty of indecent exposure."

 

I do not think you need to get far, if at all, into nuances of First Amendment law in order to discern that a "disorderly conduct" is an offense against the public peace, and it is difficult to fathom how it ever properly could be charged for one's behavior in one's own home.

 

In my decades of practice as a state prosecutor, I have never seen "disorderly conduct" charged for acts which did not originate and occur in a public setting. I cannot conceive of a case in which a prosecutor would pursue a charge of "disorderly conduct" occasioned by tone or speech in one's own home. Nor have I seen tone or content of speech as a basis for charging disorderly conduct even in a public place. At the risk of restating the obvious, "disorderly conduct" aims to penalize what it says: conduct. Disorderly conduct is something more than "disorderly speech." In my opinion, the criminal prohibition would be fatally and unconstitutionally overbroad were it to be deemed to apply to pure speech. What citizen then meaningfully would be on notice to what speech would be viewed as "disorderly" and risk criminal prosecution and penalties?

 

A Massachusetts lawyer

[Habib]

Habib, the guy didn't do as the officer told him to and he was arrested. EOS. When you don't do what the police tell you to, you run the risk of being arrested.

BTW, try your luck at running your jaws to the police the way Gates did and see if you don't end up in the back of a cruiser headed downtown. I'll be glad to document it for you.

 

First, I would never do that, so you can end that playground argument. Second, the way I interpret your argument here, as I did others, is that you are advocating a totalitarian state, is that correct? You can and should be arrested for disobeying authority even if there is no legal basis for their order?

[cch5432]

Habib, Fox News is biased. Please used reputable sources.

 

My final analysis of this situation is that everyone acted stupidly (big surprise). The officer acted stupidly for arresting a man for merely insulting him (and because arresting for disorderly conduct in a non-public setting is rare, if not unheard of). Gates acted stupidly for making a big deal out of nothing more than an officer doing his job. President Obama acted stupidly for commenting at all and also for not calling out Gates's behavior. The parties involved and all of us should just move on.

 

I have to admit though- just like the bailouts, this creates a moral hazard. If I'm racist towards a friend of President Obama, I get to meet him AND he buys the booze! :lol:

[2 Humped Camel]

Habib, Fox News is biased. Please used reputable sources.

 

My final analysis of this situation is that everyone acted stupidly (big surprise). The officer acted stupidly for arresting a man for merely insulting him (and because arresting for disorderly conduct in a non-public setting is rare, if not unheard of). Gates acted stupidly for making a big deal out of nothing more than an officer doing his job. President Obama acted stupidly for commenting at all and also for not calling out Gates's behavior. The parties involved and all of us should just move on.

 

I have to admit though- just like the bailouts, this creates a moral hazard. If I'm racist towards a friend of President Obama, I get to meet him AND he buys the booze! :lol:

 

:thumb:

[2 Humped Camel]

Habib, the guy didn't do as the officer told him to and he was arrested. EOS. When you don't do what the police tell you to, you run the risk of being arrested.

BTW, try your luck at running your jaws to the police the way Gates did and see if you don't end up in the back of a cruiser headed downtown. I'll be glad to document it for you.

 

Are you supposed to do what police tell you to if it is a violation of your constitutionally protected rights? The second part of your post is a perfect example of what I've been talking about along with the excerpts that Habib posted. It is not a race issue because if most of us behaved that way and offended a cop we are going to jail. That does NOT mean the cop has the right to arrest you or did the right thing.

[woodsrider]

Are you supposed to do what police tell you to if it is a violation of your constitutionally protected rights? The second part of your post is a perfect example of what I've been talking about along with the excerpts that Habib posted. It is not a race issue because if most of us behaved that way and offended a cop we are going to jail. That does NOT mean the cop has the right to arrest you or did the right thing.

What constitutionally protected right was violated? Good lord your reaching.

[2 Humped Camel]

:thumb:

 

It amazes me that there are really people who truly believe Gates did nothing wrong.

 

He did something wrong, he acted like a horse's behind. Acting like a horses behind and insulting someone is not a crime. It shows lack of self control, poor anger management and disrespect for another human being. He did not IMO or the opinion of the prosecutors office violate any laws.

 

For any attorneys on here, does anyone know where I could find any statistics about what percentage of the number of arrests for Disorderly conduct are actually prosecuted? I'm guessing it is very small.

[UKMustangFan]

Habib, Fox News is biased. Please used reputable sources.

 

My final analysis of this situation is that everyone acted stupidly (big surprise). The officer acted stupidly for arresting a man for merely insulting him (and because arresting for disorderly conduct in a non-public setting is rare, if not unheard of). Gates acted stupidly for making a big deal out of nothing more than an officer doing his job. President Obama acted stupidly for commenting at all and also for not calling out Gates's behavior. The parties involved and all of us should just move on.

 

I have to admit though- just like the bailouts, this creates a moral hazard. If I'm racist towards a friend of President Obama, I get to meet him AND he buys the booze! :lol:

 

It was in a public setting the minute Gates exited his home and kept running his yapper.